digimixer
Hi All
With the advent of VDJ 4 i've noticed a change in the way Atomix are marketing VDJ.
They seemed to of dropped the hype around the Beatlock function, with the default skins no longer having a button for this function, although the ability to Beatlock is still possible via Keyboard shortcuts and/or using a 3rd party skin.
The website also use to identify this function as its key feature, which it no longer seems to concentrate on.
I'm guessing this has all been done to attract more serious DJs of which some tend to rubbish this function as they feel it is "Cheating"
Personally i like the feature, i dont think it is a replacment for matching tracks manually as it isnt quite accurate enough, but it does accelerate things for you.
A bit like if you were wanting to cook a delicous meal, imagine there was a 'Make Delicous Meal' button on your cooker. You push it, all the needed ingredients and utensils appear right in front of you. Now the skill of cooking the meal is still needed, but alot of the dog work has been eliminated for you.
Thats how i see Beatlock.
I would like to see it back in the default skin as a button (or at least an option to have the button displayed if so desired)
Sorry for the Bizzare analogy, been drinking too much coffee! :)
what do you guys think?
With the advent of VDJ 4 i've noticed a change in the way Atomix are marketing VDJ.
They seemed to of dropped the hype around the Beatlock function, with the default skins no longer having a button for this function, although the ability to Beatlock is still possible via Keyboard shortcuts and/or using a 3rd party skin.
The website also use to identify this function as its key feature, which it no longer seems to concentrate on.
I'm guessing this has all been done to attract more serious DJs of which some tend to rubbish this function as they feel it is "Cheating"
Personally i like the feature, i dont think it is a replacment for matching tracks manually as it isnt quite accurate enough, but it does accelerate things for you.
A bit like if you were wanting to cook a delicous meal, imagine there was a 'Make Delicous Meal' button on your cooker. You push it, all the needed ingredients and utensils appear right in front of you. Now the skill of cooking the meal is still needed, but alot of the dog work has been eliminated for you.
Thats how i see Beatlock.
I would like to see it back in the default skin as a button (or at least an option to have the button displayed if so desired)
Sorry for the Bizzare analogy, been drinking too much coffee! :)
what do you guys think?
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 1:55 pm
digimixer
PS: If you can come up with a better analogy (which i'm sure you can, feel free to post!)
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 2:11 pm
phillydj
You can always go into the skins xml and change the sync button to beatlock, pretty much the same thing except beatlock remains active
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 2:37 pm
asymptote
Yeah, I'd noticed the subtle change in marketing that came about with this feature. I know that VDJ has had a lot of criticism on other forums, especially SSL about this feature, as if it is cheating or something.
Personally, I don't use the feature, but don't see it as cheating if people want to use it. After all, it's a sort of mechanical thing to match up too beats and if it can make life easier and help us play better music why not.
Some people seem to think that beatmatching is very clever, but really I think it should be put in perspective. Playing guitar well, or singing a song well and moving an audience is clever, but matching two beats up is nice and takes practice but that's it. The skill I rate is in choosing the tracks, getting the right feel and moving the audiences feet. Mind you I was a little late to beatmaching, didn't start until 1992, nearly 20 years since my first paid gig.
Interesting that Ableton (and other music production software) matches beats automatically but that sort of software never gets criticised.
Personally, I don't use the feature, but don't see it as cheating if people want to use it. After all, it's a sort of mechanical thing to match up too beats and if it can make life easier and help us play better music why not.
Some people seem to think that beatmatching is very clever, but really I think it should be put in perspective. Playing guitar well, or singing a song well and moving an audience is clever, but matching two beats up is nice and takes practice but that's it. The skill I rate is in choosing the tracks, getting the right feel and moving the audiences feet. Mind you I was a little late to beatmaching, didn't start until 1992, nearly 20 years since my first paid gig.
Interesting that Ableton (and other music production software) matches beats automatically but that sort of software never gets criticised.
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 4:53 pm
digimixer
I agree Asymptote
I have a mate who plays electric guitar, he came round my uncles with me once with his guitar, it so happened that my uncles friend was there with his electric aucoustic guitar, now these two had never me before but with in minutes were jamming together with each other, completetly improvised, no particular song, just impro, you would have thought they'd spent weeks rehearsing.
It wasn't my kind of music, but you had to appreciate the pure talent!!
Anyway, beatlock, not cheating i feel, even when using Beatlock, you have decide what part of the two tracks you gonaa be mixing together, you need to ensure there are no clashes in harmonics or vocals. It's hardly like the button will enable someone who has no idea what they are doing to come along and successfully pull of a gig.
Anyway, the audience care about what they hear through their ears, they don't really care about how you produced it, only that you did!
I have a mate who plays electric guitar, he came round my uncles with me once with his guitar, it so happened that my uncles friend was there with his electric aucoustic guitar, now these two had never me before but with in minutes were jamming together with each other, completetly improvised, no particular song, just impro, you would have thought they'd spent weeks rehearsing.
It wasn't my kind of music, but you had to appreciate the pure talent!!
Anyway, beatlock, not cheating i feel, even when using Beatlock, you have decide what part of the two tracks you gonaa be mixing together, you need to ensure there are no clashes in harmonics or vocals. It's hardly like the button will enable someone who has no idea what they are doing to come along and successfully pull of a gig.
Anyway, the audience care about what they hear through their ears, they don't really care about how you produced it, only that you did!
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 5:26 pm
anewsome
You guys can cleverly twist it any way you want, but no self respecting professional DJ is going to want to use software whose key feature is: "it will mix for you!",.. which is basically what the beatlock feature is. Yes, like any other feature you can just "not use it" if you don't want but the feature is still there. When I was a 100% vdj user, how many times did people ask what software are you using and I would say VDJ. On cue,.. oh isn't that the software the mixes for you. Then I would have to explain that I am the one who does the mixing. Not the computer. I get none of that with SSL.
SSL has auto mode that will play a playlist for you too, but they certainly don't post it up as being one of their "key" features like Atomix used to. Yes, I'm sure the developers were pretty impressed with themselves that they figured out in software how to lock songs together on beat. Technically, it's pretty impressive,.. but seriously... what kind of DJs are asking for this kind of technology in a DJ program? I think I have an idea, and it's not the kind of DJs who gladly pay $500 for a sound card.
The fact that Ableton beat locks everything should not even be brought into this conversation. Different animal all together. Apples and oranges.
SSL has auto mode that will play a playlist for you too, but they certainly don't post it up as being one of their "key" features like Atomix used to. Yes, I'm sure the developers were pretty impressed with themselves that they figured out in software how to lock songs together on beat. Technically, it's pretty impressive,.. but seriously... what kind of DJs are asking for this kind of technology in a DJ program? I think I have an idea, and it's not the kind of DJs who gladly pay $500 for a sound card.
The fact that Ableton beat locks everything should not even be brought into this conversation. Different animal all together. Apples and oranges.
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 9:02 pm
DJ Reggie Ward
I would like to see it back as well. At times it comes in handy. Also, I'm having a hard setting up keyborad shortcuts for it.
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 10:29 pm
anewsome
I guess I was wrong. DJs like the automix feature.
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 11:04 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
anewsome wrote :
I guess I was wrong. DJs like the automix feature.
lool ;) I dont.. hehe
Its less of a "main" feature now, as some have suggested.
As VDJ has a more pro skin and feature list, and target audience (with Numark) etc.
So, its kind of what Anewsome says. Its there, but not higly present or marketed anymore in the v4 version. For good reasons:)
Posted Fri 15 Sep 06 @ 11:15 pm
dj maddsound
I don't like Beatlock and never used it. It is fine for doing mix tapes as other DJs will use multitrack software and editing to make mix tapes. But to use it at a gig or all the time feels a little lazy to me. Because as a DJ you can be lazy all you want at a gig as most of the people won't even notice. They don't care because all they want is music. "Damn that's my song" and such. But also as a DJ you should be able to "bring it" when needed. Being lazy will not prepare you to be able to "bring it".
A DJ should be able to at least beat match...
MS
A DJ should be able to at least beat match...
MS
Posted Sat 16 Sep 06 @ 1:07 am
DJ-ALF
I don't like Beatlock too, I know how to beatmach but maybe there is a dj who can't beatmatch good but has a better selection of songs than me, so is he better or worse DJ than me? Think about it... A DJ should MAKE a crowd MOVE :)
Posted Sat 16 Sep 06 @ 2:37 am
Raw-Bear
Well, I am going to jump in with both feet here. I will probably end up putting both of them in my mouth. Here goes. IMO it does not matter what you do to make the job of being a DJ easier, so long as whatever you do pleases the crowd you are playing to. If you use a CD to play a song does that make you less a DJ. It did at one time. After all, no self respecting DJ would ever use a CD because it was not vinyl and therefore was not what a "pro" would use. Tape decks were not looked upon with favour either at one time. The way I look at it is like this. If I can walk into a gig with a hard drive holding about 30,000 tunes, a laptop, mixer, amp and speakers and then use atomix or VDJ to mix and play to the crowd so be it. I am not there to show off my scratching skills or beat mixing skills unless thats the type of style I have been hired to do. I am there to read the crowd, see what they like to dance to and cater to that style/mood. Beat locking just gives me more time to read the crowd. I am not there to be a star, I let the people on the dance floor shine. Much more fun for me that way.
Keep the beat sweet
Keep the beat sweet
Posted Sat 16 Sep 06 @ 4:38 am
dj-e-lectric
Spent 25 years dj'ing from a pair of radio shack belt drives, to technics 1200 to pioneer cdj500 cd's to bpm studio to pcdj to vdj (sometimes like last night even winamp).........When the computer actually reads the crowd and selects better music then me, than that will be cheating.............or maybe just evolution, don't know, don't care as long as my crowd is happy, my boss is happy and the checks cash without bouncing until I can retire in the mountains of Colorado far away from the drunks they pay my salary!
Posted Sat 16 Sep 06 @ 3:02 pm
asymptote
Beatlock is OK for people who don't have a controller like CD or Vinyl Control or a DAC-3. If you have those you probably won't need to use it and it's probably easier not to.
Why are some people so intolerant of the way that others work and so ready to say 'you're not a real DJ'? How the hell do they think they've got the right to judge other people, especially on a forum, where they have never even met, seen or heard the person.
If some people think that they have to have a certain software to have street cred, that's up to them, but I'm not insecure in that way. I'll use what I like and my audience don't give a s*** anyway because I keep them happy. VDJ is my software of choice and I own and have tried nearly all, so i know what I'm talking about.
To a certain extent it's horses for courses. i use VDJ on my compact mobile rig with DAC-3 and I often use SSL on my big heavy rig with TCV. I've used VDj since 4 on my big rig and it's fine for my type of work. My audiences want music and it's only the wannabees who slide up to me who are worried about what gear I am using. I don't DJ for the wannabees, I do it for me and have done for 33 years.
Why are some people so intolerant of the way that others work and so ready to say 'you're not a real DJ'? How the hell do they think they've got the right to judge other people, especially on a forum, where they have never even met, seen or heard the person.
If some people think that they have to have a certain software to have street cred, that's up to them, but I'm not insecure in that way. I'll use what I like and my audience don't give a s*** anyway because I keep them happy. VDJ is my software of choice and I own and have tried nearly all, so i know what I'm talking about.
To a certain extent it's horses for courses. i use VDJ on my compact mobile rig with DAC-3 and I often use SSL on my big heavy rig with TCV. I've used VDj since 4 on my big rig and it's fine for my type of work. My audiences want music and it's only the wannabees who slide up to me who are worried about what gear I am using. I don't DJ for the wannabees, I do it for me and have done for 33 years.
Posted Sat 16 Sep 06 @ 9:42 pm
Leryan
Seriously, si it so hard to nudge the song a little so the beats match? I dont have a problem with beatlock, but also i dont see it as some big deal... In some situations it just gets in a way of a good mix. I think the biggest helper is visual demonstration of the song so U dont have to listen by ear to match, U can see when the beats match... Then everything that vdj represents is cheating! U have BPM calculator, visual rep, beatlock, sync... Why dont U look at this from this angle, VDJ is made to make DJ lives easyer, SO JUST USE IT! :D
Posted Mon 18 Sep 06 @ 5:13 pm
digimixer
Guys.. Some people have misunderstood the original meaning of my post.
I have setup shortcuts to Beatlock. (Didnt realise you could until the one of posts above.)
Did a gig on Saturday, didnt use Beatlock once, i just like to know it's there if i need it.
Sometimes it gets you out of trouble, how many times have you ended up with the playing track having only 30secs left, but you havent sorted out the next track, for whatever reason! (Toilet, unwanted female attention!!)... has happened on more the one occasion to me.
Beatlock quickly gets the BPM rate the same and syncs the track for you, a quick little tweak and you're out of trouble...just! - probably not gonna be the best mix, but it will pass!!
I just like to know its there and would like the option of a button on the default skin for it, prefer using buttons on the interface to keyboard shortcuts (personal preference)
I have setup shortcuts to Beatlock. (Didnt realise you could until the one of posts above.)
Did a gig on Saturday, didnt use Beatlock once, i just like to know it's there if i need it.
Sometimes it gets you out of trouble, how many times have you ended up with the playing track having only 30secs left, but you havent sorted out the next track, for whatever reason! (Toilet, unwanted female attention!!)... has happened on more the one occasion to me.
Beatlock quickly gets the BPM rate the same and syncs the track for you, a quick little tweak and you're out of trouble...just! - probably not gonna be the best mix, but it will pass!!
I just like to know its there and would like the option of a button on the default skin for it, prefer using buttons on the interface to keyboard shortcuts (personal preference)
Posted Mon 18 Sep 06 @ 9:35 pm
Leryan
Totaly agree...
Posted Tue 19 Sep 06 @ 12:02 am
DJ-ALF
It is allready explained, use right click mouse on "Sync", and you can make a shortcut to stay pressed also and that's beatlock in V4.
Posted Tue 19 Sep 06 @ 2:51 am
digimixer
But i want the Sync button functionality also but seperately to Beatlock.
Posted Tue 19 Sep 06 @ 1:17 pm
frd1963
Am I missing something? Does the beatlock function actually do the work well for any of you?
I have never had it work well enough to mix 2 songs perfectly without at least some manual tweaking. Maybe if you are mixing 2 non-vocal, harmonically amiguous techno songs it might get you from one song to the other, but in my experience it is just not useful enough for consideration.
Now I'm not one of those purists that say that you have to do everything by ear to be a real DJ, or that even if you play mp3's, you have to control them from TCV in order to feel like a real DJ; or if people look over at my setup, I'm worried they will think I'm cheating. That's just insecurity. Those who have spent many hard hours perfecting a particular skill don't want to admit that this skill is no longer necessarily the best way to get the desired result.
I do actually have a shorcut to the beatlock function, but it is defined as 'temporary' so that it really only adjusts the BPM of the new song to match the one that's already playing. This saves me some of the time of having to manually modify the BPM, so I can concentrate on less mundane tasks and use my time to make the show more entertaining for the crowd. Before figuring out how to make that temporary, I hardly used Beatlock at all, because 70% of the time, it would ruin the mix, at least in my experience.
If Beatlock does work for you, then by all means keep using it. You don't have to feel like you are cheating. When you learn to drive a car, should you feel like you should also know how to ride a horse just becasue that has been around longer? No, it's less efficient and more expensive. But that also doesn't mean that horse riding is useless.
I have never had it work well enough to mix 2 songs perfectly without at least some manual tweaking. Maybe if you are mixing 2 non-vocal, harmonically amiguous techno songs it might get you from one song to the other, but in my experience it is just not useful enough for consideration.
Now I'm not one of those purists that say that you have to do everything by ear to be a real DJ, or that even if you play mp3's, you have to control them from TCV in order to feel like a real DJ; or if people look over at my setup, I'm worried they will think I'm cheating. That's just insecurity. Those who have spent many hard hours perfecting a particular skill don't want to admit that this skill is no longer necessarily the best way to get the desired result.
I do actually have a shorcut to the beatlock function, but it is defined as 'temporary' so that it really only adjusts the BPM of the new song to match the one that's already playing. This saves me some of the time of having to manually modify the BPM, so I can concentrate on less mundane tasks and use my time to make the show more entertaining for the crowd. Before figuring out how to make that temporary, I hardly used Beatlock at all, because 70% of the time, it would ruin the mix, at least in my experience.
If Beatlock does work for you, then by all means keep using it. You don't have to feel like you are cheating. When you learn to drive a car, should you feel like you should also know how to ride a horse just becasue that has been around longer? No, it's less efficient and more expensive. But that also doesn't mean that horse riding is useless.
Posted Tue 19 Sep 06 @ 5:16 pm
