tunic
Hi all,
I'm sure loads of you probably already have heard of harmonic mixing and some of you may even use it (those that don't know, harmonic mixing is mixing based upon the key/tune as well as beat). Like BPM detection tools that make BPM calculations easier, I was looking for a tool that helped determine the key of a tune. Alternatives are to use a piano or something but being able to batch process saves time and theoretically helps those at least without a piano/ear for it. I came across a little program yesterday called "Rapid Evolution" which looks like quite a nifty little utility. I've not tried it out extensively but I having mixed a couple of songs together allegedely in the same key I didn't notice any key clashes or them being out of tune.
The Rapid Evolution program can be found at www.mixshare.com
For more on harmonic mixing see: http://www.djprince.no/
Also see here for the chart: http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/overview/easymix.mv
If anyone else has has any experience of this utility and/or harmonic mixing, I'd be really interested to here. I had a friend who employed harmonic mixing in his sets and he was one of the best DJs (and tighted too) that I've heard - and we have a lot of DJs in London. He played at Serious at The Cross for the first time last year and blew everyone else out the park that night, including Judge Jules and Simon Patterson . And he only DJ'd part time! Unfortunately he's given it all up to move back to New Zealand now.
I'm sure loads of you probably already have heard of harmonic mixing and some of you may even use it (those that don't know, harmonic mixing is mixing based upon the key/tune as well as beat). Like BPM detection tools that make BPM calculations easier, I was looking for a tool that helped determine the key of a tune. Alternatives are to use a piano or something but being able to batch process saves time and theoretically helps those at least without a piano/ear for it. I came across a little program yesterday called "Rapid Evolution" which looks like quite a nifty little utility. I've not tried it out extensively but I having mixed a couple of songs together allegedely in the same key I didn't notice any key clashes or them being out of tune.
The Rapid Evolution program can be found at www.mixshare.com
For more on harmonic mixing see: http://www.djprince.no/
Also see here for the chart: http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/overview/easymix.mv
If anyone else has has any experience of this utility and/or harmonic mixing, I'd be really interested to here. I had a friend who employed harmonic mixing in his sets and he was one of the best DJs (and tighted too) that I've heard - and we have a lot of DJs in London. He played at Serious at The Cross for the first time last year and blew everyone else out the park that night, including Judge Jules and Simon Patterson . And he only DJ'd part time! Unfortunately he's given it all up to move back to New Zealand now.
Posted Sat 11 Mar 06 @ 8:23 pm
djcity
I have just been told about harmonic mixing...don't know too much about it.
I am a Hip Hop, R&B, and Reggae dj mostly.
Will harmonic mixing work for me in those generes?
I am a Hip Hop, R&B, and Reggae dj mostly.
Will harmonic mixing work for me in those generes?
Posted Sat 11 Mar 06 @ 9:22 pm
mp3jrick
I would love to see VDJ incorporate this feature.
Posted Sat 11 Mar 06 @ 9:48 pm
djcity
I think that might be a good feature for vdj too.
I still want to know if it would benifit me being a Hip Hop DJ.
I realize it would be a great help it people that spin trance/techno and more musical music if you know what I meam.
Can someone please let me know if it would be of benifit to me?
I still want to know if it would benifit me being a Hip Hop DJ.
I realize it would be a great help it people that spin trance/techno and more musical music if you know what I meam.
Can someone please let me know if it would be of benifit to me?
Posted Sat 11 Mar 06 @ 10:03 pm
ivandj
Technology makes us lazier ...
Soon dj's dont even know how to beatmatch using Vinyls or count BPM with thier heads :P
Soon dj's dont even know how to beatmatch using Vinyls or count BPM with thier heads :P
Posted Sat 11 Mar 06 @ 10:51 pm
DJ_whiteDVL
and pretty soon we're going to see jukeboxes in bars and clubs again :D
Posted Sun 12 Mar 06 @ 12:28 am
djej
lazier...no....more time for other live remix stuff...yes. I know about harmonic and haven't used the site..but will report back on it. along with you hopefully. this has been a long standing vdj request. there are other s/w that do it. hopefully 4.0 :) or a little later. thanks for the information and the s/w link.
Posted Sun 12 Mar 06 @ 12:29 am
apopsisdj
I'd like to see a separete key slider, (midi and keyboard controllable) with a match/ sync function like the main pitch slider.
Posted Sun 12 Mar 06 @ 2:40 am
djcity
I guess nobody's gonna answer my question huh
Posted Sun 12 Mar 06 @ 3:37 am
apopsisdj
The question was about hip-hop ?
Music is music...
Music is music...
Posted Sun 12 Mar 06 @ 11:12 am
tunic
Regarding making DJs lazier - I'm not sure about that with regards to harmonic mixing. Most articles I've read on harmonic mixing (and I've only been DJing fullstop for 18 months personally so I am no expert) recommend calculating the key of the record in advance. Then you use this information to know based upon music theory which goes together. I was in a band for years and I don't think music theory makes you less talented - it means you aware of where you can go with things. And no matter what you say - a key clash is a key clash whether you are an experimental "artiste" or not! ;)
On a similar note, a lot of DJ articles also recommend you calculate BPMs in advance - one of the primary reasons being that you should try and play tunes within a 3% variance if possible so that the tunes don't sound artificially fast or slow. I think you'll find many "top" DJs have pre-calculated BPMs written on their vinyls or CDs. It just helps keep things in the ball park. At the very least people group tracks of a similar speed together in their record boxes.
A live key finder that takes into consideration the current key (taking into consideration pitch shift) would be a great feature though - and something that really would move PC based DJing one step ahead of the current hardware out there.
As for the question of harmonics and hip-hop - well I am no hip-hop expert but I would suggest if you are mixing anything with a tune (such as vocals from one track over a bass line of another) then it will help. However, it will probably be of greatest benefit to any style of mixing that has long mixes between tracks such as progressive, trance, some house etc.
On a similar note, a lot of DJ articles also recommend you calculate BPMs in advance - one of the primary reasons being that you should try and play tunes within a 3% variance if possible so that the tunes don't sound artificially fast or slow. I think you'll find many "top" DJs have pre-calculated BPMs written on their vinyls or CDs. It just helps keep things in the ball park. At the very least people group tracks of a similar speed together in their record boxes.
A live key finder that takes into consideration the current key (taking into consideration pitch shift) would be a great feature though - and something that really would move PC based DJing one step ahead of the current hardware out there.
As for the question of harmonics and hip-hop - well I am no hip-hop expert but I would suggest if you are mixing anything with a tune (such as vocals from one track over a bass line of another) then it will help. However, it will probably be of greatest benefit to any style of mixing that has long mixes between tracks such as progressive, trance, some house etc.
Posted Sun 12 Mar 06 @ 12:46 pm
mp3jrick
Mixmeister finds and displays the key.
If VDJ could at least identify the key, i'd put it in the comment field of the tag.
As far as it's usefullness, it definately will elevate the mix to a new level beside perfect syncronization of the beats. I find myself struggling to hear the key match, some songs work some don't.
About the benefit to mixing HH and Rap, well if those folks actually sang it would help.....lol
If VDJ could at least identify the key, i'd put it in the comment field of the tag.
As far as it's usefullness, it definately will elevate the mix to a new level beside perfect syncronization of the beats. I find myself struggling to hear the key match, some songs work some don't.
About the benefit to mixing HH and Rap, well if those folks actually sang it would help.....lol
Posted Sun 12 Mar 06 @ 1:53 pm
Dj Xeo
of course mixing in key is hard to do if you cant actualy change the key of a song without making it sound crappy. its very rare to find 2 songs that, even when in key the melodys complement each other well
Posted Mon 13 Mar 06 @ 12:43 am
tunic
Maybe to a certain extent, but harmonic mixing coupled with clever use of the EQ can give some very impressive results - not least acapellas over other dub mixes.
Posted Mon 13 Mar 06 @ 10:02 am
digijoc-Mele
@ city, if you understand harmonic mixing, you can decide for yourself if it will help you. Tunic & Rick made valid points in response to your question. I would also weigh in that generally, a harmonic mix of any genre will sound better. (even if it's a rap song Rick ... LOL) A tracks key is not based on the vocals anyhow.
In reality, as a good DJ, we all do harmonic mixing without realizing it. When you cue your mixes in your phones, besides a bpm match, you also intuitively decide if the mix "sounds good enough"... which is the harmonic portion of the mix. So, the "key" value for matching, is the scientific representation of what you do intuitively. The intuitiveness I described is what can set some DJs above the pack and would therefore follow, that if the values are presented by the software, it would allow more DJs who are usually less intuitive, to sound better.
That said, to follow on another previously made point, whenever some of the "artistry" is automated, it does allow for new artistic aspects to be discovered. As an example, beat mixing has become so routine, why spend time setting a slider ? That time can instead be used to apply some other form of artistry that can give a fresh sound to the mix.
Again @ city, working with genres like Reggae, you can hear how mixing the various artists on single "riddims" flows. Those are harmonic by default, but the challenge is going harmonically from one riddim to the next.
The last point I'd like to make is that although this may sound easy, it is another level of the art that is not for the faint of heart. The big problem is that the software technology to date for detecting keys, is not nearly as accurate as bpm detection... I will be interested to hear the results of the utility mentioned here.
My message to vDJ dev would be to keep key detection separated and possibly optional. (sorry, just my paranoia of wanting to keep vDJ footprint small and efficient [:o)
In reality, as a good DJ, we all do harmonic mixing without realizing it. When you cue your mixes in your phones, besides a bpm match, you also intuitively decide if the mix "sounds good enough"... which is the harmonic portion of the mix. So, the "key" value for matching, is the scientific representation of what you do intuitively. The intuitiveness I described is what can set some DJs above the pack and would therefore follow, that if the values are presented by the software, it would allow more DJs who are usually less intuitive, to sound better.
That said, to follow on another previously made point, whenever some of the "artistry" is automated, it does allow for new artistic aspects to be discovered. As an example, beat mixing has become so routine, why spend time setting a slider ? That time can instead be used to apply some other form of artistry that can give a fresh sound to the mix.
Again @ city, working with genres like Reggae, you can hear how mixing the various artists on single "riddims" flows. Those are harmonic by default, but the challenge is going harmonically from one riddim to the next.
The last point I'd like to make is that although this may sound easy, it is another level of the art that is not for the faint of heart. The big problem is that the software technology to date for detecting keys, is not nearly as accurate as bpm detection... I will be interested to hear the results of the utility mentioned here.
My message to vDJ dev would be to keep key detection separated and possibly optional. (sorry, just my paranoia of wanting to keep vDJ footprint small and efficient [:o)
Posted Mon 13 Mar 06 @ 2:50 pm
A Man and His Music
This is nothing new, they just put a name to it. It's called practice. I would not know a f flat from a g sharp (if there is such a thing), but I know what tracks will go together. For those of us that have been doing this for awhile, it's just the way it's done. The first time I hear a track, I am thinking of how many tracks will go with it. Before software, I didn't know or care what the bpm's were. We just knew what went together. The first time I saw a DJ with bpm's taped to the covers of his vinyl, I said to the guy, that is so gay (and I don't mean that in a sexual way). This was back in the 80's. He even had them in the crates, in order. I have been blessed, to have been doing this for so long, almost 38 years. I have been at this club alone, for 19 years, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Can you say practice?
Posted Thu 16 Mar 06 @ 5:01 am
acw_dj
A Man and His Music,
What can I said? that's the way to do it! ... I also have 37 years now in this too and nothing can remplace a good music ear ;-)
What can I said? that's the way to do it! ... I also have 37 years now in this too and nothing can remplace a good music ear ;-)
Posted Sat 18 Mar 06 @ 8:33 pm