Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Hi there…..¨
Went to a dj-work-shop today, in my town.
My town got a pretty big and good dj-scene, with lotsa great dj… including names like Röyksopp, Dj TeeBee, Ugress and more..
The theme for the work shop was pc use in dj-ing.
And the unofficial showcase was Traktor and Final Scratch.
Well, I have seen a few post there regarding support for Final Scratch, and this was my first time in close encounter with the software/hardware.. and to be honest, in danger of provoking any fans, it suck!!! I was not impressed at all! The setup was a pain, took ages to make it work, and when finaly (no pun intended.. lol) up, it had huge latency problems!
Maybe it was an unlucky showcase, but if this is what people are fuzzing about, I was very very very disappointed!
Hopefully d-vinyl is a lot better, as this is not exactly cheep hardware.
And Traktor is another story! Never really tried it hard myself, but had the opportunity now! What is this program all about? For me it is just an advanced dual mp3 player… it does not give me an advantage as a dj!! The database(song) system was bad, and did not have many helpful features making a change to pc-djing logical! I could easily have out-mixed a Traktor users with my Pioneer cdj-1000 decks…
I’m so glad I’m with VDJ, giving me a super database, helpful features and more! VDJ does give me an advantage as DJ, makes me mix faster, find songs faster etc. Making a change to pc-djing logical!
There where lots of dj’s there, and the good thing is that from this day on, pc djing suddenly got accepted in my town! They all agreed on pc’s could be a nice supplement for other hardware. Only thing not convincing them was the software (Traktor) and hardware (Final Scratch)
Man, I whish I had VDJ with xp10 there today, I know I could have made them all go for VDJ and the controller! But sorry, there is no way that I’m going to enter the scene and have a showcase for my colleagues with my Hercules “toy”… lol .. but if I had xp10 there today, having seen a few videos of the hardware, I know it would impress them, and VDJ’s features are a lot more helpful and broadening than Traktor!
Just a few impressions after the dj work shop today
Dj in Norway, happy VDJ user :)
Posted Fri 02 Jul 04 @ 2:31 pm
andyg
I really can't believe that you preferred the database system in VDJ to Traktor. I have used both (demo versions I'll admit) and the only reason I would choose Traktor over VDJ is that you can increase the latency providing a much more stable audio output and the recordcase system is SOOO much better.
You can choose which columns you want out of the IDV2Tag and have them in whatever order you want.
e.g. I would have
Artist - Title - BPM - Time - Genre - Rating - Year
VDJ wins hands down for mixing, however. It is so easy to mix with VDJ and if I can get the skipping problem solved I will definately be going with VDJ (also it's much cheaper ;) ).
I really don't agree with bashing other software just to make your own look better. Live and let live I say. I am quite capable of recognising better features in other software.
You can choose which columns you want out of the IDV2Tag and have them in whatever order you want.
e.g. I would have
Artist - Title - BPM - Time - Genre - Rating - Year
VDJ wins hands down for mixing, however. It is so easy to mix with VDJ and if I can get the skipping problem solved I will definately be going with VDJ (also it's much cheaper ;) ).
I really don't agree with bashing other software just to make your own look better. Live and let live I say. I am quite capable of recognising better features in other software.
Posted Fri 02 Jul 04 @ 4:21 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
andyg..
sure its about user preferences, but I really really hate idtags.. they often tend to be messed up, having wrong info etc...
I love the way VDJ handles things, the file-name system...
(artist - song.mp3)
its very easy and straight forward system... and i like it, but i can see others prefer idtags
so, sorry, i prefer vdj database ;) lol
and u are true, VDJ is a lot better for mixing, and have advantages over cd-decks (or Traktor). So having no skipping problems, I really really prefer VDj.. there is no doubt at all! :)
hopefully we/you can figure out your skipping problems, because its a great software, and as u say, a far better price than others...
but I'm not bashing other software.. lol.. I'm just telling my experience (like u do with your prefferance over Traktor database)... and ..hehe... its NOT my software, not at all.. I'm just a regualar user, as you... lol... I have nothing to do with the company that makes VDJ, not at all! :) so its a USER opinion... completely! :) and I have said well things about for example MixVibes in this forum.. (the vip-user is just a user status, and not related to a position in company or anything like that)
so, we agree on VDJ being a better mix-ing software, and disagree on the database... no problem at all, I can see your point, but I really prefer the way VDJ handle filenames... I find it alot better for managing my collection :) and dont really like idtags (can have www.mp3.com as artist etc)... but then again, its a user preference...
hope to see you get rid of skipping problems, and as a full vdj user..
dj in norway
sure its about user preferences, but I really really hate idtags.. they often tend to be messed up, having wrong info etc...
I love the way VDJ handles things, the file-name system...
(artist - song.mp3)
its very easy and straight forward system... and i like it, but i can see others prefer idtags
so, sorry, i prefer vdj database ;) lol
and u are true, VDJ is a lot better for mixing, and have advantages over cd-decks (or Traktor). So having no skipping problems, I really really prefer VDj.. there is no doubt at all! :)
hopefully we/you can figure out your skipping problems, because its a great software, and as u say, a far better price than others...
but I'm not bashing other software.. lol.. I'm just telling my experience (like u do with your prefferance over Traktor database)... and ..hehe... its NOT my software, not at all.. I'm just a regualar user, as you... lol... I have nothing to do with the company that makes VDJ, not at all! :) so its a USER opinion... completely! :) and I have said well things about for example MixVibes in this forum.. (the vip-user is just a user status, and not related to a position in company or anything like that)
so, we agree on VDJ being a better mix-ing software, and disagree on the database... no problem at all, I can see your point, but I really prefer the way VDJ handle filenames... I find it alot better for managing my collection :) and dont really like idtags (can have www.mp3.com as artist etc)... but then again, its a user preference...
hope to see you get rid of skipping problems, and as a full vdj user..
dj in norway
Posted Fri 02 Jul 04 @ 4:43 pm
andyg
I hope so too. I WOULD rather use VDJ. I have to admit I'm kinda stumped about the skipping though. I had hoped that there would be a buffer system or latency settings in the full version.
Posted Fri 02 Jul 04 @ 4:46 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
can i ask u a question?
are u using big mp3 files? like a long mix?
thats the only area I have notised skipping..
but you can help this with turning down/off the load into memory.
vdj loads by default song into memory, and if its a huge mp3 file, skipping may happen. But you can turn loading into memory off (loosing a bit of wave-display)
are u using big mp3 files? like a long mix?
thats the only area I have notised skipping..
but you can help this with turning down/off the load into memory.
vdj loads by default song into memory, and if its a huge mp3 file, skipping may happen. But you can turn loading into memory off (loosing a bit of wave-display)
Posted Fri 02 Jul 04 @ 4:53 pm
andyg
Like I said I'm at work just now - but I'll try that when I get home.
Thanks for the info :)
Thanks for the info :)
Posted Fri 02 Jul 04 @ 4:55 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
no prob...
and if that doesn't help, post agian, and we will sort it out in the end :)
and if that doesn't help, post agian, and we will sort it out in the end :)
Posted Fri 02 Jul 04 @ 4:56 pm
cyberia
Regarding software-based DJing as a way of the future: according to "How to DJ Right: the art and science of mixing records" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802139957/qid=1088844793/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-0729866-3047967),
MP3's compression ratios are achieved by eliminating the frequencies not heard by the human ear. So, Brewster says that when played in a large setting (stadium, etc.), vinyl will always be superior to MP3 because of this frequency elimination. I guess logically to me that means PC-djing will always be the niche for mobile jockeys, small club DJs, etc. Just wondering if that's what the general consensus on PC DJing is.
Later.
MP3's compression ratios are achieved by eliminating the frequencies not heard by the human ear. So, Brewster says that when played in a large setting (stadium, etc.), vinyl will always be superior to MP3 because of this frequency elimination. I guess logically to me that means PC-djing will always be the niche for mobile jockeys, small club DJs, etc. Just wondering if that's what the general consensus on PC DJing is.
Later.
Posted Sat 03 Jul 04 @ 9:06 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
cyberia
I see your point, and that was acutally the REAL topic for the show-case and not FS (have learned later by the way that there was a bug in the setup, and therefore not giving the right impression. Latency was not supposed to be as bad as it was that thay,and FS works better than my impressions.. so, sorry, was a bad setup)
but the real topic was the quality of mp3 vs cd's vs vinyl.
Some even said that vinyl was like a piano ("the real thing") and cds/mp3 was like a synth trying to be piano, loosing a lot of "feel" and realness...some dynamics.
but after a huge discussion, and lots of very loud testing, the conclution was that it's a lesser problem then thought.
Sure there is a "feel" in a vinyl crackle and hiss, but thats a different story. In our test cds & mp3s (ripped at at least 192kps) did just as well...
why? its seems like the "bottle neck" is not the sound quality on pc/cdplayer, but rather the amp and speakers...
clubs & at least pubs, very rare have really hi-fi speakers, more often they are just made for loud use, and even pa systems (concert speakers). Therefore not having the dynamics and rage to tell any difference in cds and mp3s...
Although there are "bad" ripped mp3s (vbr seem actually to be best, dont know if this is a fact), all in all, the difference was not noticable at the club, it seemed just as good..
but having said that, I have a few "hi fi ear" friends (lol) who claim to hear the difference at my hi-fi home stereo, so sure the compression looses dynamics... at lest for classical pieces of music. When it comes to house,disco etc the comprssion is not that notisable. But compression = looses something (even if most of it is "out of the range of the human ear")
so, conclution is, giving the "bottle necks" of a club amp/speakers, there really aren't anything bad to say about playing good ripped mp3s
and international dj's like Dimitri, Röyksopp and many more use mp3s at very very large arenas, playing really really loud... so, I thing Pc-djing got same qualities as cd dj-ing, both in sound, possibilities and soon equipment.
Vinyl djing will always be vinyl djing :)
dj in norway
I see your point, and that was acutally the REAL topic for the show-case and not FS (have learned later by the way that there was a bug in the setup, and therefore not giving the right impression. Latency was not supposed to be as bad as it was that thay,and FS works better than my impressions.. so, sorry, was a bad setup)
but the real topic was the quality of mp3 vs cd's vs vinyl.
Some even said that vinyl was like a piano ("the real thing") and cds/mp3 was like a synth trying to be piano, loosing a lot of "feel" and realness...some dynamics.
but after a huge discussion, and lots of very loud testing, the conclution was that it's a lesser problem then thought.
Sure there is a "feel" in a vinyl crackle and hiss, but thats a different story. In our test cds & mp3s (ripped at at least 192kps) did just as well...
why? its seems like the "bottle neck" is not the sound quality on pc/cdplayer, but rather the amp and speakers...
clubs & at least pubs, very rare have really hi-fi speakers, more often they are just made for loud use, and even pa systems (concert speakers). Therefore not having the dynamics and rage to tell any difference in cds and mp3s...
Although there are "bad" ripped mp3s (vbr seem actually to be best, dont know if this is a fact), all in all, the difference was not noticable at the club, it seemed just as good..
but having said that, I have a few "hi fi ear" friends (lol) who claim to hear the difference at my hi-fi home stereo, so sure the compression looses dynamics... at lest for classical pieces of music. When it comes to house,disco etc the comprssion is not that notisable. But compression = looses something (even if most of it is "out of the range of the human ear")
so, conclution is, giving the "bottle necks" of a club amp/speakers, there really aren't anything bad to say about playing good ripped mp3s
and international dj's like Dimitri, Röyksopp and many more use mp3s at very very large arenas, playing really really loud... so, I thing Pc-djing got same qualities as cd dj-ing, both in sound, possibilities and soon equipment.
Vinyl djing will always be vinyl djing :)
dj in norway
Posted Sat 03 Jul 04 @ 12:13 pm
doc
I have final scratch and cannot complain about it. The main problem I have had in the past was ground looping problems. The new updated version took care of some problems, especially now you can load on the fly. Carry lots of ground loop eliminators or the special plug strips. You will also run into phasing problems in some clubs and you need the box or adapter to change phase. Yes, there are wires to hook up but how will d-vinyl hook up? Will there be looping problems there also? I would actually rather have d-vinyl because I like vdj and am more comfortable with vdj but I am tired of spending money on software/hardware for computers. I run 5 seperate dj programs because none of the 5 can do what the others do the best. I do wish however, that d-vinyl would work with the fs scratch amp so all I'd have to do is pick up their vinyl or whatever extra needed.
Posted Sat 03 Jul 04 @ 2:04 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
yes...
I had a second look at FS, and it works a lot better than the showcase... so guess they where a bit unlucky at the showcase ;) works pretty cool actually, and would love d-vinyl or fs myself...
as of now, d-vinyl seems the choice for vdj, and i kinda like the "package"... controller, timecoded cd and timecoded vinyl... all i need in one package :D
but would love to try, before i buy
Posted Sat 03 Jul 04 @ 2:39 pm
spindem
On the vinyl quality vs mp3 quality. Recently I supplied a funky house cd to a club to play for a friends party.
The mix was recorded via VDJ and then burnt onto cd. Most of the mp3's were either ripped from cd or actual vinyl!
Being originally an old school vinyl dj, I have always been worried about the quality of mp3's but I must say the cd sounded real, real good and has put my worries out of my mind. No one could tell the difference, including me!
Also had a few people wanting to buy the cd! :)
I'd really want the xp10's but I really want vinyl controllers too! Can't wait for a d-vinyl/VDJ solution out of the box!!!!!!!!
The mix was recorded via VDJ and then burnt onto cd. Most of the mp3's were either ripped from cd or actual vinyl!
Being originally an old school vinyl dj, I have always been worried about the quality of mp3's but I must say the cd sounded real, real good and has put my worries out of my mind. No one could tell the difference, including me!
Also had a few people wanting to buy the cd! :)
I'd really want the xp10's but I really want vinyl controllers too! Can't wait for a d-vinyl/VDJ solution out of the box!!!!!!!!
Posted Sat 03 Jul 04 @ 4:15 pm
Proto
Dvinyl does not have the same problems FS has with ground loops and phase etc. I own both. FS works now and then. Dvinyl works always. As to reliability I prefer Dvinyl over FS.
Proto
Proto
Posted Sat 03 Jul 04 @ 7:07 pm
apopsisdj
To Proto :
I've read again from you about this.
But my conclusion is that, it has to be this needle drop
think, and the mode (absolute/relative)
As far i know FS is designed to be controlled from turntables
only, not a controler. So it is working only in "absolute" mode
with needle drop etc.
On the other hand D-vinyl has its own controller, and use
vinyl records only for pitch-bending / scratching (relative mode).
But absolute mode is much more sensitive in setup and problems, while relative works most of the times.
I know because i'm testing Mixvibes dvs these days, wich is a simillar system but supports both absolute and relative mode.
Relative work with every setup /turntable/needle, whille absolute need more attention.
Btw, how is the d-vinyl controller in feel, and how good it is like a soundcard with 4in/4out and asio drivers.
Have you test it with recording software (like cubase) ?
I've read again from you about this.
But my conclusion is that, it has to be this needle drop
think, and the mode (absolute/relative)
As far i know FS is designed to be controlled from turntables
only, not a controler. So it is working only in "absolute" mode
with needle drop etc.
On the other hand D-vinyl has its own controller, and use
vinyl records only for pitch-bending / scratching (relative mode).
But absolute mode is much more sensitive in setup and problems, while relative works most of the times.
I know because i'm testing Mixvibes dvs these days, wich is a simillar system but supports both absolute and relative mode.
Relative work with every setup /turntable/needle, whille absolute need more attention.
Btw, how is the d-vinyl controller in feel, and how good it is like a soundcard with 4in/4out and asio drivers.
Have you test it with recording software (like cubase) ?
Posted Sun 04 Jul 04 @ 1:45 am
smokey187
talking about mixvibes
they got more than one software
which do u think is the best?
smokey
they got more than one software
which do u think is the best?
smokey
Posted Sun 04 Jul 04 @ 1:50 pm
smokey187
in my opinion the only thing mixvibes has that is not found it vdj is the tempo
other than that i think vdj is far more superior
other than that i think vdj is far more superior
Posted Sun 04 Jul 04 @ 2:15 pm
keyon
That is so cool dvinyl works with vdj. I want to get it but want to too try it hands on first. I've bought too many things over the net that I wish I had tried out myself first before buying. But it sounds damn cool. Especially for the price.
BPM has their Digiscratch timecoded vinyl solution. With everything it goes for nearly $2,000 U.S as shown below!!:
Digiscratch control records (4) $30.00
Digiscratch software $599.00
Digiscratch Box + Software $1,199.00
Besides price, I wonder what the difference is between D-vinyl and Digiscratch? Anyone heard anything about Digiscratch?
BPM has their Digiscratch timecoded vinyl solution. With everything it goes for nearly $2,000 U.S as shown below!!:
Digiscratch control records (4) $30.00
Digiscratch software $599.00
Digiscratch Box + Software $1,199.00
Besides price, I wonder what the difference is between D-vinyl and Digiscratch? Anyone heard anything about Digiscratch?
Posted Sun 04 Jul 04 @ 4:42 pm
Superstom
Kyon,
before I ordered a dvinyl controller I did some investigation these are my conclusions:
- BPM digiscratch has a very good hardware box (build by RME). It supports 2 modes: speed only and a needle drop mode. I don't like the software, tried some BPM studio demo's, the search is terrible, only 2 separate waveform displays. Very expensive especially with 19" remote included. Lots of separate boxes (19" remote, digiscratch box)
- DVinyl, nice all in one box, with 19" remote, sound card, vinyl support and even the power supply is built in. it only supports speed mode (maybe later with newly disigned vinyl also needle drop will be implemented). Soundgraph software is terrible, but with VDJ it is excellent, VDJ has far more features and the team is listening to the users and the forum. Compared to BPM its cheap.
So I have chosen for the D Vinyl. Hope to get it soon and I will post my findings.
Ewout
before I ordered a dvinyl controller I did some investigation these are my conclusions:
- BPM digiscratch has a very good hardware box (build by RME). It supports 2 modes: speed only and a needle drop mode. I don't like the software, tried some BPM studio demo's, the search is terrible, only 2 separate waveform displays. Very expensive especially with 19" remote included. Lots of separate boxes (19" remote, digiscratch box)
- DVinyl, nice all in one box, with 19" remote, sound card, vinyl support and even the power supply is built in. it only supports speed mode (maybe later with newly disigned vinyl also needle drop will be implemented). Soundgraph software is terrible, but with VDJ it is excellent, VDJ has far more features and the team is listening to the users and the forum. Compared to BPM its cheap.
So I have chosen for the D Vinyl. Hope to get it soon and I will post my findings.
Ewout
Posted Sun 04 Jul 04 @ 7:25 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
good to hear...
I like the idea of d-vinyl more and more... :)
and it seems like a great package... controller, vinyl AND timecoded cd's
well, my question is about the last, timecoded cd's
does it work good? anyone tried ???
I like the idea of d-vinyl more and more... :)
and it seems like a great package... controller, vinyl AND timecoded cd's
well, my question is about the last, timecoded cd's
does it work good? anyone tried ???
Posted Sun 04 Jul 04 @ 9:28 pm
keyon
Yeah, I'm liking the sound of dvinyl more and more too. What's the point of going digital if you have more bulk as with digiscratch's extra stuff? So Superstorm I look forward to hearing what u think of dvinyl, thanks.
Posted Mon 05 Jul 04 @ 11:13 am
