l_rids
This topic has probably been covered already but I've been enlightened since having first hand experience with Serato at a dj comp in the weekend.
I'm pretty sure many people may know that Serato Scratch has become the industry standard for digital dj's running pc's or laptops. As with Pioneer CDJ1000's and Technics 1200's are industry standard for cd's and vinyl.
I for one stand by what virtual dj has to offer but how can they compete? Basically all the clubs from where I am have a serato scratch port permanently installed where you can hook your laptop up without having to fiddle with the wire inputs etc with your own soundcard blah blah.
If vdj was compatible to the serato sound box thingee, would it be easier for vdj to break into the market? Would vdj ever incorporate this as an option or would this be break some sort of laws? I'm hopeful on vdj future developments but curious if this would ever happen.
I'm pretty sure many people may know that Serato Scratch has become the industry standard for digital dj's running pc's or laptops. As with Pioneer CDJ1000's and Technics 1200's are industry standard for cd's and vinyl.
I for one stand by what virtual dj has to offer but how can they compete? Basically all the clubs from where I am have a serato scratch port permanently installed where you can hook your laptop up without having to fiddle with the wire inputs etc with your own soundcard blah blah.
If vdj was compatible to the serato sound box thingee, would it be easier for vdj to break into the market? Would vdj ever incorporate this as an option or would this be break some sort of laws? I'm hopeful on vdj future developments but curious if this would ever happen.
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 9:36 pm
DJ_whiteDVL
maybe if VDJ produced their own soundcard for TCV I'm sure many would buy it. I for one would definatelly purchase this card if I knew it would work best with VDJ.
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 9:49 pm
Superstom
I would also buy this "VDJ" soundcard. It would be good if a proper company would made this card, like for example RME.
Scratch live is locked to the scratch amp and the scratch amp is only usable with the Serato software. Serato is good for true turntablists. It almost only works with turntables or cd players attached. You could not map your shortcut keybord layout.
While I do lots of different gigs, I stick with VDJ for some time
Ewout
Scratch live is locked to the scratch amp and the scratch amp is only usable with the Serato software. Serato is good for true turntablists. It almost only works with turntables or cd players attached. You could not map your shortcut keybord layout.
While I do lots of different gigs, I stick with VDJ for some time
Ewout
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 10:08 pm
blackice
What version of VDJ do you use with your TCV?
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 10:21 pm
l_rids
v3.1. Not that it should matter. I use tccd. Since we are on the topic of serato vs vdj i'm still waiting for vdj to fix the problem with the headroom at the start of each track enabling you to scratch the first beat. I know wirelessdj has mentioned it a few times as well. Really sux because it is a definite NEED
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 10:38 pm
anewsome
I_rids, that is funny you bring up this topic. It's been brought up literaly hundreds of times on this forum. It is impossible to scratch beat #1 with VDJ unless you have some silence at the start of your track. Obviously the guys at Serato figured this out (or listened to their user base) and they have a track offset feature in the setup. I know this feature is made to overcome the problem of wearing out the start of TCV, but it should work for some space to the start of the track right? Seriously,.. how hard could this feature be to add into VDJ. My guess is about as hard as the feature for grabing the track on deck 1 and loading it on track 2 (also included in SSL). From a programmer's standpoint these have to be absolutely simple, as compared to "fixing sound quality" or something like that.
I_rids, as far as Serato being the standard at the clubs, that is pretty much the same here where I live too. I recently went to a BUNCH of clubs in Hollywood in a single night. Guess what they all had in common? Every club DJ was using Serato Scratch Live. So you are right, it is becoming somewhat of a standard around here at least. I hear of everyone on these forums talking about VDJ being used at the biggest clubs around but I have certainly not seen it at any club I've ever been too,.. unless it's me playing :-)
It could be that Serato is simply geared towards club use and professional DJ use specifically and VDJ is not. The feature of Serato that basically allows DJs to carry their set on an ipod, plug it into the laptop running Serato and have all your stuff ready to go there is basically a feature not matched in VDJ. This is why I see multiple DJs taking turns on SSL setup at the club but this would be a pain with VDJ.
DJ_WhiteDVL - VDJ would be smart to make their own Scratch amp like product or whatever. Serato claims some really low latency but they can because they have a hardware constant to spec against. VDJ has no such thing. They tell you that latency will basically be as good as your laptop and soundcard can do. I personally was never able to get stellar latency from VDJ + Maya on a 3Ghz Pentium 4.
Superstorm - you are incorrect. SSL works with mouse and keyboard just like VDJ or you can attach Turntables or CD players for timecode use. You can do an SSL gig with just your laptop, soundcard and external mixer.
But seriously, the headroom at the start of the track is so easy to fix, I mean it could easily be a check mark in setup like this:
[ ] Use a 10 second timecode offset for track start headroom
Or something.
Anyway,.. just my thoughts today on the topic of the month. I just picked up my copy of SSL so I can't really offer any firsthand insight based on experience just yet. What I can say so far is that it seems clean, uncluttered, lighting fast (compared to VDJ on the same hardware), very stable and doesn't seem to have a bunch of stuff I don't need or don't care about - like karaoke features and napster databases. I am slightly annoyed that SSL knows nothing about BPMs at all so I feel like I am working backwards a bit there. Otherwise, so far so good.
I_rids, as far as Serato being the standard at the clubs, that is pretty much the same here where I live too. I recently went to a BUNCH of clubs in Hollywood in a single night. Guess what they all had in common? Every club DJ was using Serato Scratch Live. So you are right, it is becoming somewhat of a standard around here at least. I hear of everyone on these forums talking about VDJ being used at the biggest clubs around but I have certainly not seen it at any club I've ever been too,.. unless it's me playing :-)
It could be that Serato is simply geared towards club use and professional DJ use specifically and VDJ is not. The feature of Serato that basically allows DJs to carry their set on an ipod, plug it into the laptop running Serato and have all your stuff ready to go there is basically a feature not matched in VDJ. This is why I see multiple DJs taking turns on SSL setup at the club but this would be a pain with VDJ.
DJ_WhiteDVL - VDJ would be smart to make their own Scratch amp like product or whatever. Serato claims some really low latency but they can because they have a hardware constant to spec against. VDJ has no such thing. They tell you that latency will basically be as good as your laptop and soundcard can do. I personally was never able to get stellar latency from VDJ + Maya on a 3Ghz Pentium 4.
Superstorm - you are incorrect. SSL works with mouse and keyboard just like VDJ or you can attach Turntables or CD players for timecode use. You can do an SSL gig with just your laptop, soundcard and external mixer.
But seriously, the headroom at the start of the track is so easy to fix, I mean it could easily be a check mark in setup like this:
[ ] Use a 10 second timecode offset for track start headroom
Or something.
Anyway,.. just my thoughts today on the topic of the month. I just picked up my copy of SSL so I can't really offer any firsthand insight based on experience just yet. What I can say so far is that it seems clean, uncluttered, lighting fast (compared to VDJ on the same hardware), very stable and doesn't seem to have a bunch of stuff I don't need or don't care about - like karaoke features and napster databases. I am slightly annoyed that SSL knows nothing about BPMs at all so I feel like I am working backwards a bit there. Otherwise, so far so good.
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 11:43 pm
anewsome
If you are at all interested in this topic, I would highly recommend watching all of the videos here:
http://scratchlive.net/forum/discussion/?discussion_id=8321#new
I watched them all and the first thing I thought is, "why doesn't vdj have nice videos like this?". The second thing I thought was, I finally need to just go and buy this thing.
http://scratchlive.net/forum/discussion/?discussion_id=8321#new
I watched them all and the first thing I thought is, "why doesn't vdj have nice videos like this?". The second thing I thought was, I finally need to just go and buy this thing.
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 11:47 pm
blazemonger
VDJ and Serato are apples and oranges, While VDJ is a great all-round product Serato is basically 'just' a vinyl interface for computer based audio.
Also it should be very easy to fix the first beat thing.. just have a look at how others (like serator and djDecks) handle this. But then I think the whole TC issue is not very high on the priority list for VDJ..
Also it should be very easy to fix the first beat thing.. just have a look at how others (like serator and djDecks) handle this. But then I think the whole TC issue is not very high on the priority list for VDJ..
Posted Tue 03 Jan 06 @ 11:54 pm
anewsome
Just from posts on this board and the number of little TCV icons I see here, I would estimate that around 10% of virtual DJ users are TCV users. Compared to SSL,.. where I think around 95% are TCV users and the rest probably TCCD users.
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 12:14 am
anewsome
Also, one other note on keyboard shortcuts. Everyone posts here that the ability to customize keyboard shortcuts in VDJ and that is supposed to be a "good thing". Well it is until guess when? You have to use someone else's setup. I bet you won't think someone else's foobar keyboard shortcuts are cool then.
This reminds me of the early PC vs. Mac days when programmers were free to make whatever keyboard shortcuts they wanted on the PC and they did. Guess what, it took people forever to learn every software's foobar shortcuts. Yes I have been using the computer long enough to remember the frustration of using software and copy and paste were not ctrl+c and ctrl+v. The Mac has *always* been good though. They encouraged consistent use of keyboard shortcuts from the begining. Guess what, this is one of the reasons why early computer users usually said Macs were "easier" than PCs. They were right.
This is the same debate I have with Linux vs Windows people these days. I am a diehard Linux user and I like most of the freedoms but I think the fact that every software programmer basically comes up with their own keyboard shortcut scheme is completely ridiculous. The fact that different window systems, distrubutions and further customization by users makes it certain that any Linux system other than your own is pretty much unusable.,.. about as unusable as if I tried to get on to do a set at a club with someone else's customized VDJ install. I would be lost.
If I get on at the club with someone else's Laptop + Serato and my hard drive, I'm good to go. I personally hope that the craze to customize your keyboard never becomes prominent in the Serato world. I know a lot of people will debate this point but really, think about it.
This reminds me of the early PC vs. Mac days when programmers were free to make whatever keyboard shortcuts they wanted on the PC and they did. Guess what, it took people forever to learn every software's foobar shortcuts. Yes I have been using the computer long enough to remember the frustration of using software and copy and paste were not ctrl+c and ctrl+v. The Mac has *always* been good though. They encouraged consistent use of keyboard shortcuts from the begining. Guess what, this is one of the reasons why early computer users usually said Macs were "easier" than PCs. They were right.
This is the same debate I have with Linux vs Windows people these days. I am a diehard Linux user and I like most of the freedoms but I think the fact that every software programmer basically comes up with their own keyboard shortcut scheme is completely ridiculous. The fact that different window systems, distrubutions and further customization by users makes it certain that any Linux system other than your own is pretty much unusable.,.. about as unusable as if I tried to get on to do a set at a club with someone else's customized VDJ install. I would be lost.
If I get on at the club with someone else's Laptop + Serato and my hard drive, I'm good to go. I personally hope that the craze to customize your keyboard never becomes prominent in the Serato world. I know a lot of people will debate this point but really, think about it.
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 1:13 am
313ctro
Oh lord here we go again. You know, I ain't even gonna bother because paulheu is right, you're comparing apples to oranges. Yes they're both fruits (dj programs), but they look different, taste different, feel different and smell different.
They are different horses for different courses.
Just to clear up any confusion. SSL does have an internal mode and all SSL's functions have keyboard shortcuts. No you cannot set your own keyboard shortcuts, and I agree with anewsome. It's good to have a defined set of shortcuts because then everyone knows what someone is talking about when the say "CTRL + L" or "SHIFT +1"
@ Anewsome
No, SSL does not have an "Auto BPM" detector. You must scan your files with a program like Mixmeister BPM analyzer (free app) first, then import the songs to your SSL crates. Then the BPMs will show in the playlist column. Also when you load tracks, the BPMs will show on the white circles as well and change accordingly when you adjust the pitch on your turntables/CDJs.
They are different horses for different courses.
Just to clear up any confusion. SSL does have an internal mode and all SSL's functions have keyboard shortcuts. No you cannot set your own keyboard shortcuts, and I agree with anewsome. It's good to have a defined set of shortcuts because then everyone knows what someone is talking about when the say "CTRL + L" or "SHIFT +1"
@ Anewsome
No, SSL does not have an "Auto BPM" detector. You must scan your files with a program like Mixmeister BPM analyzer (free app) first, then import the songs to your SSL crates. Then the BPMs will show in the playlist column. Also when you load tracks, the BPMs will show on the white circles as well and change accordingly when you adjust the pitch on your turntables/CDJs.
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 1:46 am
Dj Xeo
if VDJ allowed the use of different sample rates latency could be lower. its the easyest thing in the world to add a buffer to the start of a song in VDJ. move into the timecode by the amount you wanna buffer by, press S then P (unless youve changed it, appreiciate the comment on that) at the end of the day it wont have a buffer on the screen but it will still play at the same point on the vinyl surface, just dont look at the waveform becuase it wont move past the start of the song and hence you wont be able to see where you are if you have moved past the start of the track. VDJ isnt going to be comparible to SSL any time in the future.
at the end of the day VDJ will never be seen as hardcore and pro as SSL becuase of how it has started off it has allways catered to the amature market and how ever well it starts to work it will not be seen in the same light. if you are a professional and your growing out of VDJ, the move to SSL is a good choice but dont try and compare VDJ to SSL cause theyre not nearly the same thing. its like (here it come the obligitory car annalogy) .... its like buying a nissan and expecting it to dirve like and have the reliability of an impretza STI. then going to the nissan forum and chatting on about how the thing that costs twice as much is twice as good. twice as good at driving with pinpoint accuracy but not so good at towing a caravan, going to the store and going slowly round town, driving simply for when youve just woken up lol. great comparison there ahy lol
at the end of the day VDJ will never be seen as hardcore and pro as SSL becuase of how it has started off it has allways catered to the amature market and how ever well it starts to work it will not be seen in the same light. if you are a professional and your growing out of VDJ, the move to SSL is a good choice but dont try and compare VDJ to SSL cause theyre not nearly the same thing. its like (here it come the obligitory car annalogy) .... its like buying a nissan and expecting it to dirve like and have the reliability of an impretza STI. then going to the nissan forum and chatting on about how the thing that costs twice as much is twice as good. twice as good at driving with pinpoint accuracy but not so good at towing a caravan, going to the store and going slowly round town, driving simply for when youve just woken up lol. great comparison there ahy lol
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 3:22 am
l_rids
I don't know whats up with the analogies but Serato & VDJ are pretty much on the same wavelength except for added features which IMO are a bit much.
There is obviously issues which vdj needs to addressed and the features which anewsome has pointed out should be a gimme. I wouldn't even call them features, they should be standard!
I'm not too fussed about the sound quality because I think vdj is good enough to validate the stamp of being professional quality. Most people listening wouldn't even notice difference... the scratch sound seems to be something which a few ppl talk about in the forums. I don't even think that this should be on the priority lists as it seems at the moment it sits on the fence of being "good enough". It becomes only quite noticeable when producing slower scratch sounz.
Any news on an update? :P
(Frustrated wannabe turntablist)
There is obviously issues which vdj needs to addressed and the features which anewsome has pointed out should be a gimme. I wouldn't even call them features, they should be standard!
I'm not too fussed about the sound quality because I think vdj is good enough to validate the stamp of being professional quality. Most people listening wouldn't even notice difference... the scratch sound seems to be something which a few ppl talk about in the forums. I don't even think that this should be on the priority lists as it seems at the moment it sits on the fence of being "good enough". It becomes only quite noticeable when producing slower scratch sounz.
Any news on an update? :P
(Frustrated wannabe turntablist)
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 3:22 am
l_rids
I also refuse to say that I'm growing out of vdj. I came across atomix productions years ago when atomixmp3 was released. They were well ahead of the game back then and no software was like it? It would be a shame to classify it as 2nd best now, but it seems like this is the way they are heading.
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 3:29 am
DJ_whiteDVL
Guys (and girls) if any of you are looking for a quick fix to scratching the first beat of ANY SONG!!!!!!
Here is how I do it.
-create a cue at the begining of a song.
-drop the needle wherever you want on your TCV.
-go to that cue spot
-scratch away without having to worry about the timecode signal cutting out
This is a quick run around and not what many would like to hear although I've been using run arounds for a little while now. Whatever tricks I pick up I can gladly share :D
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
Here is how I do it.
-create a cue at the begining of a song.
-drop the needle wherever you want on your TCV.
-go to that cue spot
-scratch away without having to worry about the timecode signal cutting out
This is a quick run around and not what many would like to hear although I've been using run arounds for a little while now. Whatever tricks I pick up I can gladly share :D
Best Regards
DJ White Devil
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 4:12 am
apopsisdj
@Dj whitedvl, that's what i do...
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 4:46 am
anewsome
apropsis and WhiteDVL,.. that's fine for vinyl but what do I do with TCCD? relative mode? any ideas?
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 6:29 am
DJ_whiteDVL
well you can always scan forward with the CD deck to about 30 secs or more and jump to cue in VDJ. That should work just the same anewsome.
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 6:33 am
TechnicalDJ
I jumped off VDJ about 4 months ago...and haven't looked back. The ONLY thing i missed was looping, but the stability, latency, customer support, quality, name, and being able to buy replacement vinyls for only $8 SERIOUSLY made up for that. But now i don't even have to worry about that because 1.5 which just came out has BETTER looping than VDJ. HAHAHAHA- SUCKERS!!! White Devil man- you must come to the light side of Serrato I've missed you over here hahahahaha!! Cmon- both anewsome and i have switched (peer pressure peer pressure) Also- everyone else that uses TCV over here- COME TO SERRATO!! ((I'm really sorry VDJ staff, but it just didn't cut it...and now your dying a slow painful death...I see VDJ like the titanic...sinking very slowly... with people jumping off... swimming to Serrato life boats, taking them to a better life.))
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 7:04 am
anewsome
Hmm. Not sure how this works with vinyl but the suggestion doesn't work with TCCD. Thanks for the recommendation, but it still doesn't help with scratching beat #1 on an mp3 that does not have any silence at the start. As you drag the CD backwards and hit the start of the track, whatever amount you kept dragging when you reached the start of the track, this is how much you will need to spin forward before the mp3 will start moving,.. effectively making it impossible to scratch beat #1.
Picture this. If even if you are 3 minutes into the timecode. Load up a track and play it. Now grab the turntable and pull back to the start of the track. Pull back half a turn even more. Now when you let go of the platter, the timecode will spin a half turn before the mp3 starts playing.
Is this making any sense? I don't see any way to fix this with VDJ, other than them making a program change or re-ripping your CD to wav, adding a few seconds of silence in a wav editor and re-encoding the mp3. Seems ridiculous, I know
Picture this. If even if you are 3 minutes into the timecode. Load up a track and play it. Now grab the turntable and pull back to the start of the track. Pull back half a turn even more. Now when you let go of the platter, the timecode will spin a half turn before the mp3 starts playing.
Is this making any sense? I don't see any way to fix this with VDJ, other than them making a program change or re-ripping your CD to wav, adding a few seconds of silence in a wav editor and re-encoding the mp3. Seems ridiculous, I know
Posted Wed 04 Jan 06 @ 7:08 am
