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Forum: VirtualDJ Technical Support

Topic: Pioneer DDJ-1000 vs 1000SRT - Page: 1
With Virtual DJ, is there any advantage to the DDJ-1000SRT over the DDJ-1000?

Thanks!
 

Posted Sun 22 Mar 20 @ 11:20 pm
olyndtaylor wrote :
With Virtual DJ, is there any advantage to the DDJ-1000SRT over the DDJ-1000?

Thanks!

Hi!
This is a great question, since the most people don't know the exact difference between the SRT and the regular DDJ-1000.
I am into deep in this thing, so I hope and think that I can answer this question in a qualified and understandable manner.

First you have to know that there are TWO different kinds of devices/work-interfaces/setups.
They are roughly called "MIDI" and "Standalone".

MIDI:
Is just like the remote for your TV.
It only sends commands to your laptop and it is regularly not able to play or read music-files by itself.
So without a computer a simple MIDI-Controller is kinda useless.
Like you have to have a TV to watch, a remote without TV is useless.

Standalone:
Devices which are able to play a music-source (CD, USB-Sticks, Vinyls, etc.) are formally known as "Standalone".
So this name indicated a device which can operate without a laptop.
But nowadays almost every standalone device is capable of MIDI. So it means that there are a lot of hybrids.
(CDJs, XDJs, DJMs, Denon Players & Mixers, etc.)

Now if you reflect this to the use of any device it means:
A player plays music by itself.
And a mixer is able to change volumes, EQs, effects, etc. by itself, which a MIDI-only device is not capable of.


And finally there are the DDJ-1000 and its "grown-up" SRT brother.

The both players/decks of both devices do exactly the same.
So there is no single difference except of some different named buttons. You have to decide which you like more.
The main thing is that they only send & receive MIDI as usual and are not able of playing music by themselfs.

The mixer is the big crux of the matter in this devices.
In "EXTERNAL MODE" (meaning to connect an external player to the mixers channels and switch them to "LINE IN" for example) both mixers behave the same way. So they behave just like normal DJM-Mixers and process the signals as a normal standalone mixer. They change the volume, EQs, and even effects. Both in the same way.

It all comes down to the INTERNAL-MODE. So this means to use the mixer inside the software.
While the regular DDJ-1000 is MIDI-ONLY in the internal-mode (for example: if your software/system freezes, the mixer WON'T do anything when moving faders), the SRT remains a STANDALONE mixer, even when you are inside VirtualDJ (if your system freezes, the mixer still does its thing). Also the effects on the SRT take place on the device itself when you are in internal mode, while with the regular DDJ-1000 you are telling VirtualDJ to start effects.

I personally like the SRT more, and also did the switch to the SRT after I bought the regular DDJ-100 first, because I like to have a "real" mixer. It doesn't really make much difference to be honest, but it gives me a better feeling and should relieve the software a little since the software can ignore the whole mixer-section when it comes to MIDI.

Cheers :)
 

Posted Tue 24 Mar 20 @ 4:32 am
In a simpler form:

1. DDJ-1000 and DDJ-1000SRT perform almost the same way when it comes to analog mixing.
2. DDJ-1000 is capable of "internal" mixing only
3. DDJ-1000SRT is capable of "external" mixing only
4. The infos displayed on the jog display differ a lot between the 2 models
5. DDJ-1000SRT offers hardware effects, while DDJ-1000 offers software effects

Now: Internal VS External mixing is a "big" debate for some users, but these days it doesn't make much difference performance-wise
There are pro's and con's on every mode.

With "internal" mixing the bigger complaint for some users are the gain knobs (which are MIDI) and the way they work with auto-gain.
On the other hand, with "external" mixing mode you loose:
1) Automatic Headphones
2) Sandbox
3) Post Fader Effects (for software effects)
4) Sampler activation on Master channel (sampler has to be activated on a deck or on a designated separate audio channel)
5) Master Audio Effects
6) Distortion protection (VirtualDJ's built-in limiter works per deck instead of working on master).
That being said, both 1000 and 1000SRT offer their own "hardware/firmware" peakstop limiter on master output. However that's applicable only for those particular models and not a general rule.

PS: DJ software industry is slowly moving away from "pure" external mixing for various reasons, including technical ones like how many audio streams can travel securely through a USB connection with low latency.
VirtualDJ supports both "internal" and "external" mixing modes for many-many years and it doesn't technically prefer one way or another. However when a unit offers both modes, we prefer to use internal mixing as we believe it offers a better mixing experience with our software.
Rekordbox uses "internal" mixing for all the new controllers made for Rekordbox, or controllers that offer both ways. It uses "external" only for older controllers and DJM mixers series.
Serato has switched the last couple years from "external" mixing to a "hybrid" mode (too much technical details for this thread to explain) which is something between "internal" and "external" mixing at the same time.
So... Software (and Controllers) industry is slowly moving away from pure external mixing mode.



 

Posted Tue 24 Mar 20 @ 9:03 am
andy-chiles & PhantomDeejay,

Thank you so much for the detailed responses. I really appreciate all the info & insight!
I already have a 1000SRT, but was looking at adding a second system and just wondering if I should spend the extra and stick with the SRT version or not.

Thanks again.
 

Posted Tue 24 Mar 20 @ 8:25 pm
No problem, glad that you like it.

I hope you can work with this informations and figure out the best solution for you situation.
For me personally I think it is better to stick with the same system, since you will use it more intuitionally after a while.
The differences between the 1000 & 1000SRT are not so big, but as PhantomDeejay said, you'll have some different behaviours in some details, which could lead to some confusions during the use. (Also you have to install additional drivers & stuff which put more load on your system).
And to avoid this I would go with the same two devices to leave it the same and performe better because of the growing intuitional knowledge about the device...
But this is surely your decision, so I hope we could help you a little to ease it a bit :)
 

Posted Thu 26 Mar 20 @ 12:23 pm
From what I gather both have differences, but which one works better with VDJ? From the information posted here, i'm still confused as to which is better. I currently use an SX2 and looking to upgrade to the 1000/1000SRT.

From my understanding - the DDJ-1000 which was intended for Rekordbox is better since its very similar to VDJ whereas the 1000SRT is mainly for Serato?
 

Posted Tue 14 Apr 20 @ 2:47 am
 

Posted Tue 14 Apr 20 @ 10:32 am
Hello.
I was also planning to buy one of those but first I just have to ask if both of this controllers can move faders in VDJ, because I play videos and they have to fade in and fade out when using faders.

As I read in manuals and comments is that 1000 controlles software faders but 1000SRT is hardware but their movement is visible in VirtualDJ GUI (so can be used for video files in my case also)?

Thank you in advance.
 

Posted Sat 15 Aug 20 @ 3:23 pm
TVD UKPRO InfinityMember since 2007
So Is the SRT now fully supported in VDJ?
 

Posted Tue 01 Sep 20 @ 2:45 pm
It has been for almost a year now.
 

Posted Tue 01 Sep 20 @ 2:54 pm
djdadPRO InfinityDevelopment ManagerMember since 2005
Johny Deejay wrote :
Hello.
I was also planning to buy one of those but first I just have to ask if both of this controllers can move faders in VDJ, because I play videos and they have to fade in and fade out when using faders.

As I read in manuals and comments is that 1000 controlles software faders but 1000SRT is hardware but their movement is visible in VirtualDJ GUI (so can be used for video files in my case also)?

Thank you in advance.


Yes, both 1000 and 1000SRT will mix videos the same way.

 

Posted Tue 01 Sep 20 @ 5:35 pm
Hi taking the opportunity of this post about DDJ-1000 and 1000 SRT to ask the following question:
Is there a way the DDJ-1000 can behave the same way in terms of BEAT FX's ?
In other words, a way to not use VDJ's software Beat FXs but the original Pioneer's Beat FXs when playing on VDJ?
I noticed that when using an external line-in while VDJ is active, the Beat FX section works perfectly based on Pioneer's original effects

I'm new on VDJ, start to like but so far I must say I feel like VDJ Beat FXs are below Pioneer's
 

Posted Thu 24 Jun 21 @ 7:07 pm
No.
It has been explained in another thread in the past. The way Pioneer firmware works with DDJ-1000 is very strange at least.

The unit will use hardware (on board) effects for analog sources, but it will use software effects for digital (computer) audio.
To make it more complicated, the switch between on board and software effects is not done transparently from the unit (it does not send MIDI to let the host application know if it switched or not).
You would expect that once you switch the "SOURCE" switch on top from USB A/B to a line input the effects will change from software to hardware. Well that doesn't apply directly. The unit monitors the audio levels on the line inputs and if it doesn't receive any audio it won't switch the FX unit from software to hardware.

And if all of the above makes you wonder what Pioneer was thinking when designing the firmware of the device, read this:
The MASTER effects (when BEAT FX source is set to MASTER) can switch between hardware and software at any time without the computer program actually knowing it.
If you mix only computer audio then MASTER effects are software. If you add an analog source in the mix (even by a small amount) the MASTER effects switch automatically to hardware.

Finally:
Pioneer originally designed the DDJ-1000 with the intention to use SOFTWARE effects even for analog sources when a DJ software was actively accessing/using the device. For this very reason, originally DDJ-1000 featured software FX send/return lines on it's audio bus.
With the original implementation as soon as the display opened, the effects were always software for all inputs (analog & digital)
However, there was a bug somewhere. We don't know if it was a firmware bug or a Rekordbox bug.
Pioneer soon after the initial release updated the firmware of the device to "fix" a problem with the BEAT FX on analog sources.
From that firmware onwards (Firmware version 1.05 released in June 2018) Pioneer removed the FX send/return channels from the unit and used the solution mentioned above.
Initially there was a misconception that when the device works with Rekordbox DJ the effects are hardware. However that's not the case. It's quite easy to see for yourself that it's not so. All you have to do is to use Rekordbox GUI to change the active BEAT FX and watch as the display on the device switches as well. The only advantage Rekordbox DJ has is that since the unit uses Pioneer effects they can use the exact same parameters on their software version and therefore sound really close.
 

Posted Fri 25 Jun 21 @ 8:15 am
Ok thanks for this clear and exhaustive explaination :-) .. that clarifies a lot!
 

Posted Fri 25 Jun 21 @ 10:36 am
SintarPRO InfinityMember since 2012
Hi all. Can anyone with the SRT cox form how needle search functionality is performed with this unit? Does Shift and moving the platter work for this?

I’d read somewhere this does something else on this unit?

Cheers!!
 

Posted Mon 06 Sep 21 @ 8:07 am
Hi, thanks for all the detailed explanation, it helps me a lot when deciding on a new DJ controller for VDJ. I was always looking for a club-standard Pioneer controller (i.e. DDJ-1000, due to layout similar to NXS2) with (at least an option for) external mixing to have a seamless "backup scenario" in case my PC crashes/restarts. If I conclude what was said above, I would deduct the following: For the sake of best user experience with VDJ, it is actually better to go for fully internal mixing (with club-standard Pioneer controllers) and have a backup externally (i.e. small HW mixer attached behind). Is that correct (from a VDJ developer perspective)?
 

Posted Tue 07 Dec 21 @ 12:04 pm
Another option is the XDJ-XZ which would fulfil both those requirement, although its quite a bit more money than the DDJ-1000. Or any of the XDJ-RX range (1,2 or the latest 3) for that matter.

Letting you use both VDJ while having the back up of using a usb stick or analogue inputs too. Th benfit on the XZ that it has full size jog wheels.
 

Posted Tue 07 Dec 21 @ 12:52 pm
I am actually looking into XDJ-XZ, it is a very good machine indeed. When reading the above, I am now questioning such a decision. Developers seem to like the full software solution more.
I am trying to understand the info on the page http://www.virtualdj.com/manuals/hardware/pioneer/xdjxz/advanced.html

Can any developer explain if XDJ-XZ also does some funky stuff like above mentioned "hidden" switching between SW and HW effects? I tried tosearch for a relevant topic on this forum with no luck.
 

Posted Wed 08 Dec 21 @ 8:09 am
 

Posted Wed 08 Dec 21 @ 10:14 am
Another thing to consider, from what I have read .. is that, the XDJ-XZ is NOT, a stand-alone 4 deck Mixer. It requires an aditional, 2 CDJs connected. (great deal if one is wanting, has room for, that much hardware)

Or one needs to use it connected to laptop to get the software functionality for all 4 decks. (the outter decks, 3 and 4)
 

Posted Wed 08 Dec 21 @ 1:22 pm
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