hippydog
Martin FourS wrote :
I understand. The reason I would prefer the S2L-module is that I want my lights to respond to breaks in the music.
i'm the opposite.. though their are times when having the lights 'music triggered' is great..
their are also many times where having them run by tempo is the best look.. especially with scanners or moving heads..
Posted Sat 19 Dec 09 @ 12:05 pm
SBDJ
I posted up a thread in the plugins section but it received very little interest.
I've got my plugin working in a test environment; at the moment you can define 12 scenes, each with infinite steps and 512 channels. The 512 channels can be individually controlled, randomly controlled (with per-channel random limits), channels can be linked and inverted as well.
It uses the CBG grid for timing and you can define a scene to trigger when a certain point in a certain song is reached.
The 12 scenes (along with blackout and pause) can be triggered from VDJScript allowing you to map them to a MIDI/HID controller or a keyboard shortcut.
Lots more work still to do - additional DMX interface support, smoothing between steps and step resolution being just some of them.
I've got my plugin working in a test environment; at the moment you can define 12 scenes, each with infinite steps and 512 channels. The 512 channels can be individually controlled, randomly controlled (with per-channel random limits), channels can be linked and inverted as well.
It uses the CBG grid for timing and you can define a scene to trigger when a certain point in a certain song is reached.
The 12 scenes (along with blackout and pause) can be triggered from VDJScript allowing you to map them to a MIDI/HID controller or a keyboard shortcut.
Lots more work still to do - additional DMX interface support, smoothing between steps and step resolution being just some of them.
Posted Sat 19 Dec 09 @ 2:00 pm
synthet1c
Bump
Posted Sun 15 Aug 10 @ 7:25 am
JimmyL-DJ
I'm using a VM116 Velleman unit to control my DMX lights. And, I'm uisng Freestyler. I use an older HP laptop and all runs fine.
The only problem I find is the extra work hooking up and tearing it down. Lots of cables. Extra bag.
I guess I missed SBDJ's plug-in. Thanks SB I'll look into it.
JJZ
The only problem I find is the extra work hooking up and tearing it down. Lots of cables. Extra bag.
I guess I missed SBDJ's plug-in. Thanks SB I'll look into it.
JJZ
Posted Sun 15 Aug 10 @ 11:29 pm
SBDJ
I never finished or released it due to lack of interest.
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 6:24 am
sirwesley
+1 on interest...I think there is interest...unless everyone is content using a separate program like Freestyler, but I would love to see some integrated functionality and can help out where needed.
I also have a dedicated laptop for lighting right now which runs Freestyler using the Enttec Pro USB device.
I also have a dedicated laptop for lighting right now which runs Freestyler using the Enttec Pro USB device.
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 10:37 am
Martin FourS
Where would this lead us? I think that keeping laptops dedicated is the best way to go. VDJ is a program to play music, Freestyler to control lights.
My point is, that VDJ would never be able to control everything. I'm using 6 scanners, 8 PAR's with dimmers, 4 effects connected to a switchpack , a smokemachine and a beamer that is capable of projecting lasereffects.
1- It would be almost impossible to create a dynamic show and keep your head to the music. With a second laptop I can someone else run the lights
2- How about the different fixtures that everyone is using?
3- Is it possible not to effect the stability of VDJ?
It requires a subforum to solve all the problems this would give.
Just my 2 cts... ;)
My point is, that VDJ would never be able to control everything. I'm using 6 scanners, 8 PAR's with dimmers, 4 effects connected to a switchpack , a smokemachine and a beamer that is capable of projecting lasereffects.
1- It would be almost impossible to create a dynamic show and keep your head to the music. With a second laptop I can someone else run the lights
2- How about the different fixtures that everyone is using?
3- Is it possible not to effect the stability of VDJ?
It requires a subforum to solve all the problems this would give.
Just my 2 cts... ;)
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 12:50 pm
jakovski
1+
I also think this is the wrong way to go. Ok, for small setups DMX controlling via VDJ would work.
I think it would be more important to get a real MIDI Clock (Master/Slave) option to sync the lights to the music.
That's my 2 cent ;-))
Greets, Heiko
I also think this is the wrong way to go. Ok, for small setups DMX controlling via VDJ would work.
I think it would be more important to get a real MIDI Clock (Master/Slave) option to sync the lights to the music.
That's my 2 cent ;-))
Greets, Heiko
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 12:55 pm
hippydog
Martin FourS wrote :
Where would this lead us?
it would lead us to a single computerized platform that could do everything we need that is completely integrated..
Full control and yet can be fully automated..
Here's what I see ;-)
Imagine..
The VMS4 has a built in mouse pad.. imagine being able to manually set your scanners or moving heads using that same mouse pad (LIKE A SPOTLIGHT).. then hit a button and the lightshow responds to the music based on the correct BPM AND GENRE OF SONG (ie: A ballad switches on the just mirrow ball and laser, a rock songs uses just the scanners, and a dance song uses scanners and pars)..
integration.. a 'Cue' can be LINKED to not only a Genre, but even to a song! lets not stop their.. it could even be linked to the cues in VDJ..
a 'Light Cue' linked to a 'VDJ Cue'.. imagine the possibilities on that!!!
Quote :
VDJ is a program to play music, Freestyler to control lights.
what about videos? (which takes 1000 times more cpu power to process then sending DMX codes). Does it make sense for VDJ to be a music and VIDEO player?
What about karoake?
What about slideshows?
what about all the effects?
or should VDJ just 'play' music?
Quote :
My point is, that VDJ would never be able to control everything.
my old dmx44 chauvet controller can controll ALL the lights you listed.. and it can do it with a simple 8 bit CPU with only 8 kilobytes of memory..
The only problem is programming a 1000 scene/step changes is a huge pain in the butt.
Thats where software like Freestyler rules.. in PROGRAMING those millions of steps into something coherent like a 'cue'..
but in the end, they are still just a bunch of 'steps' triggered one after another..
VDJ can handle that. (playing those programmed 'scenes' and 'cues')
so how about this.. What if you could 'program' your lightshow using Freestyler? but use VDJ to 'play' those Cues and Scenes?
Quote :
1- It would be almost impossible to create a dynamic show and keep your head to the music. With a second laptop I can someone else run the lights
I can program a lightshow, that is dynamic, yet only requires me to trigger off of 10 'cues'..
memory is unlimited, if you need someone to control your lightshow, then you need to invest more time in programming better 'cues'
Quote :
2- How about the different fixtures that everyone is using?
for now.. a smarter way to go would be to use existing software to program the lightshow(s), and then have a way to "import" or "record" those scenes/cues in VDJ.
[quote]3- Is it possible not to effect the stability of VDJ?[quote]
sending a stream of 'steps' or scene changes to a DMX dongle is childs play compared to what VDJ does with some controllers..
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 1:42 pm
Martin FourS
I'm not gonna disagree. A lot of the things stated make sense. But how complicated do you want to make things?
If the mousepad is dedicated to the lightcontrol, OK. Otherwise it's easy to mess up your mix. That's exactly why I still vote for separate controls.
This is probably not too hard to make. If you save your cuepoints to HD, it can have an add-on (like a number) which can be send as a MIDI-code. We're already using MIDI-controllers, so send this instruction to your lightcontrol to start a new cue. Something to think about.
[EDIT] Sorry, SBDJ, you already have....
OK. English is not a native language for me...... What I was trying to say is that (but that's my opinion) DMX-control and a DJ-package are (or should be) 2 separate things. Music video's are not new and VDJ picked that up and followed the trend. Everything else is a logical follow-up because video was already implemented.
Now that's not what I've been aiming at. And I think you do understand. The reason I said that, is that it would take a huge amount of fixture-files to control everything available at the moment. If DMX-control is integrated you want to keep everything as simple as can be. That means, that you don't control a scanner or moving head with 6 (or more) sliders. Everybody, even without any experience in DMX-light control, should be able to run the lights in every possible way. And that means that you can't do it without fixture-files. So VDJ have to set up another forum where we can share our own created files. ;p
You're right. The advantage of having a LJ is that I'm more capable of reacting to unplanned situations.
Why not the other way around? Like I said before: If there's a possibility to send MIDI-instructions to an external program, you can let VDJ take control of the lights. I think this is far more easy than trying to make VDJ an AIO.
It's not just that. If integrated VDJ-users would want a GUI to see what they are doing. I would. This would make the program a lot heavier. One of the advises that comes around in our forums is to keep your PC dedicated to VDJ to avoid (or solve) problems. So making VDJ (a lot) bigger is not the way to go. Not everyone has the ability to buy a new PC every year. Besides that: I'm using a full-screen skin (Black Sheep 2). I guess I have to use a second screen to display all of the controls to avoid a skin with buttons that are shrunk to fit everything.......
We're already using MIDI-controllers to control VDJ. If you want VDJ to control the lights, I think that would be the easiest way to go.
hippydog wrote :
The VMS4 has a built in mouse pad.. imagine being able to manually set your scanners or moving heads using that same mouse pad (LIKE A SPOTLIGHT).. then hit a button and the lightshow responds to the music based on the correct BPM AND GENRE OF SONG (ie: A ballad switches on the just mirrow ball and laser, a rock songs uses just the scanners, and a dance song uses scanners and pars)..
If the mousepad is dedicated to the lightcontrol, OK. Otherwise it's easy to mess up your mix. That's exactly why I still vote for separate controls.
Quote :
integration.. a 'Cue' can be LINKED to not only a Genre, but even to a song! lets not stop their.. it could even be linked to the cues in VDJ.. a 'Light Cue' linked to a 'VDJ Cue'.. imagine the possibilities on that!!!
This is probably not too hard to make. If you save your cuepoints to HD, it can have an add-on (like a number) which can be send as a MIDI-code. We're already using MIDI-controllers, so send this instruction to your lightcontrol to start a new cue. Something to think about.
[EDIT] Sorry, SBDJ, you already have....
Quote :
what about videos? (which takes 1000 times more cpu power to process then sending DMX codes). Does it make sense for VDJ to be a music and VIDEO player?
What about karoake?
What about slideshows?
what about all the effects?
or should VDJ just 'play' music?
What about karoake?
What about slideshows?
what about all the effects?
or should VDJ just 'play' music?
OK. English is not a native language for me...... What I was trying to say is that (but that's my opinion) DMX-control and a DJ-package are (or should be) 2 separate things. Music video's are not new and VDJ picked that up and followed the trend. Everything else is a logical follow-up because video was already implemented.
Quote :
My point is, that VDJ would never be able to control everything.
Quote :
my old dmx44 chauvet controller can controll ALL the lights you listed.. and it can do it with a simple 8 bit CPU with only 8 kilobytes of memory..
Now that's not what I've been aiming at. And I think you do understand. The reason I said that, is that it would take a huge amount of fixture-files to control everything available at the moment. If DMX-control is integrated you want to keep everything as simple as can be. That means, that you don't control a scanner or moving head with 6 (or more) sliders. Everybody, even without any experience in DMX-light control, should be able to run the lights in every possible way. And that means that you can't do it without fixture-files. So VDJ have to set up another forum where we can share our own created files. ;p
Quote :
I can program a lightshow, that is dynamic, yet only requires me to trigger off of 10 'cues'..
memory is unlimited, if you need someone to control your lightshow, then you need to invest more time in programming better 'cues'
memory is unlimited, if you need someone to control your lightshow, then you need to invest more time in programming better 'cues'
You're right. The advantage of having a LJ is that I'm more capable of reacting to unplanned situations.
Quote :
2- How about the different fixtures that everyone is using?
Quote :
now.. a smarter way to go would be to use existing software to program the lightshow(s), and then have a way to "import" or "record" those scenes/cues in VDJ.
Why not the other way around? Like I said before: If there's a possibility to send MIDI-instructions to an external program, you can let VDJ take control of the lights. I think this is far more easy than trying to make VDJ an AIO.
Quote :
3- Is it possible not to effect the stability of VDJ?
Quote :
a stream of 'steps' or scene changes to a DMX dongle is childs play compared to what VDJ does with some controllers..
It's not just that. If integrated VDJ-users would want a GUI to see what they are doing. I would. This would make the program a lot heavier. One of the advises that comes around in our forums is to keep your PC dedicated to VDJ to avoid (or solve) problems. So making VDJ (a lot) bigger is not the way to go. Not everyone has the ability to buy a new PC every year. Besides that: I'm using a full-screen skin (Black Sheep 2). I guess I have to use a second screen to display all of the controls to avoid a skin with buttons that are shrunk to fit everything.......
We're already using MIDI-controllers to control VDJ. If you want VDJ to control the lights, I think that would be the easiest way to go.
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 6:02 pm
SBDJ
I kind of agree with a lot of that, but I think scale comes into it as well. Dedicated DMX programs with properly programmed scenes are definately the best way to do things. There's no way I would every attempt to replicate FS into VDJ.
You can already S2L between Freestyler and VDJ and use it's own beat detection to step through your scenes. VDJ also supports OSC so that could be utilised if someone wrote an appropriate plugin for FS. VDJ can also already output data via MIDI although that becomes slightly more complicated as VDJ also likes to grab all available MIDI devices.
I implemented something a bit different. It didn't use fixture definitions or anything fancy. You were presented with 512 channels and you do with them as you wish. You create scenes with near infinite steps and trigger those scenes via the plugin control panel (or preprogrammed cue points, or even BPM ranges). Scenes were then stepped through in line with the CBG.
To make things a bit simpler to set up I allowed channels to be linked - and even linked with inverted values (for example pan on opposite sides).
You could also assign random values to individual (or linked) channels on steps, and unlike Freestylers random mode you can random different channels at different times. So you could random the gobo or colour every 4 beats and the pan every beat for example. Because you specify when to change it's not fixed either - you could random colour on every beat, then every 2 beats and so on.
It did work but was a long way from a finished article - as I say though numerous discussions took place but very few people actually gave any input. As a result I suspended work on it. I do have a requirement in the near future to run some small DMX shows and I don't want to be using a second machine. The options for me are to finish this plugin or use FS - and honestly I'd prefer not to be alt-tabbing between apps at a gig!
You can already S2L between Freestyler and VDJ and use it's own beat detection to step through your scenes. VDJ also supports OSC so that could be utilised if someone wrote an appropriate plugin for FS. VDJ can also already output data via MIDI although that becomes slightly more complicated as VDJ also likes to grab all available MIDI devices.
I implemented something a bit different. It didn't use fixture definitions or anything fancy. You were presented with 512 channels and you do with them as you wish. You create scenes with near infinite steps and trigger those scenes via the plugin control panel (or preprogrammed cue points, or even BPM ranges). Scenes were then stepped through in line with the CBG.
To make things a bit simpler to set up I allowed channels to be linked - and even linked with inverted values (for example pan on opposite sides).
You could also assign random values to individual (or linked) channels on steps, and unlike Freestylers random mode you can random different channels at different times. So you could random the gobo or colour every 4 beats and the pan every beat for example. Because you specify when to change it's not fixed either - you could random colour on every beat, then every 2 beats and so on.
It did work but was a long way from a finished article - as I say though numerous discussions took place but very few people actually gave any input. As a result I suspended work on it. I do have a requirement in the near future to run some small DMX shows and I don't want to be using a second machine. The options for me are to finish this plugin or use FS - and honestly I'd prefer not to be alt-tabbing between apps at a gig!
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 8:21 pm
sirwesley
SBDJ wrote :
VDJ can also already output data via MIDI although that becomes slightly more complicated as VDJ also likes to grab all available MIDI devices.
So does VDJ not let you have a MIDI controller mapped to another application? I haven't tried it. I have the Behringer BCF2000 and it might be worth the attempt to run FS mapped to that MIDI controller and VDJ with another MIDI device, but if VDJ is in fact a MIDI hog, then that should be fixed in VDJ. That would eliminate the need to alt-tab.
Posted Mon 16 Aug 10 @ 8:58 pm
hippydog
Martin FourS wrote :
I'm not gonna disagree. A lot of the things stated make sense. But how complicated do you want to make things?
:-)
I think we are just looking at things differently.
If a person needs to be constantly adjusting and controller their lightshow, then a second computer (and screen and controller etc) is the smarter way to go.. (so I agree, flipping between windows and software is not ideal)
myself, I would rather have a light show preprogrammed, and let it do its thing.. IE: no flipping of software, no looking at two screens..
When I press play for the song, the lightshow responds accordingly..
again, PLAYING a DMX "cue" or "show" or "scene", does NOT require a lot of overhead nor a dedicated GUI or controller
As to "fixture files" etc, I also agree.. VDJ can't (and won't) just jump in their and be a full fledged DMX PROGRAMMING tool..
but again... I would like to see more integration between the two, and maybe even someday the ability to PLAY THOSE PREPROGRAMMED SHOWS..
Yes, sending signals to the DMX software is pretty much do-able now.. but its still limited on what you can do, and the other problem is you are still running another software package or even another computer..
You are also assuming that EVERYONE needs to program and run a complicated lightshow.. (I pretty much use a whole DMX universe (512 channes) for my "big show" so I know where your coming from), but in MOST cases, many DJ's are just running a few DMX effects.. For those DJ's something like freestyler is actually overkill!
IE: when I run just my four colorchangers I always just use my simple chauvet controller.. it does the job just as well..
soooo..
for now...
what I would like to see one day is for it to just start small.. basically be able to act as a simple DMX 'step' controller (no fixture files, no "patching") just the ability to run simple DMX steps.
then
maybe see better integration between existing lighting software (Sunlite, Freestyler, etc)
then
maybe have the ability to actually "play" those same shows from within VDJ.
Posted Tue 17 Aug 10 @ 9:47 am
GadgetMan
I don't want VDJ to be a jack of all trades - I want VDJ to concentrate on music & video.
I'd like VDJ to be able to output a recognisable signal that DMX software could pick up for S2L applications.
I'd like this signal to be either passed locally (same machine) or via an Ethernet crossover lead to another laptop.
Worse case I'd like to take an audio feed in to the DMX software and have it pick up the S2L. I'm assuming this last one is already possible.
My biggest problem is getting around the whole DMX setup - screnes, etc. 99% of the time I want all lights working in S2L mode, other than that I want a black out, strobe and spot (from my scanners) for the wedding 'first dance'.
Simples...
Roy
I'd like VDJ to be able to output a recognisable signal that DMX software could pick up for S2L applications.
I'd like this signal to be either passed locally (same machine) or via an Ethernet crossover lead to another laptop.
Worse case I'd like to take an audio feed in to the DMX software and have it pick up the S2L. I'm assuming this last one is already possible.
My biggest problem is getting around the whole DMX setup - screnes, etc. 99% of the time I want all lights working in S2L mode, other than that I want a black out, strobe and spot (from my scanners) for the wedding 'first dance'.
Simples...
Roy
Posted Tue 17 Aug 10 @ 9:59 am
SBDJ
VDJ can already do the audio as you say. It also outputs OSC however, which is far more flexible than MIDI and if lighting software adopted this standard you would be good to go. OSC is a network protocol so can be used locally, on another machine or even multiple machines. Maybe I'll look into writing an OSC plugin for Freestyler.
A lot of lights have S2L mode selectable as a value in DMX meaning you can flip between S2L and preprogammed scenes simply by selecting appropriately configured scenese.
Edit: I've just written a test plugin that allows VDJ to control Freestyler, including S2L triggering using the CBG grid.
GadgetMan wrote :
My biggest problem is getting around the whole DMX setup - screnes, etc. 99% of the time I want all lights working in S2L mode, other than that I want a black out, strobe and spot (from my scanners) for the wedding 'first dance'.
A lot of lights have S2L mode selectable as a value in DMX meaning you can flip between S2L and preprogammed scenes simply by selecting appropriately configured scenese.
Edit: I've just written a test plugin that allows VDJ to control Freestyler, including S2L triggering using the CBG grid.
Posted Wed 18 Aug 10 @ 5:54 am
GadgetMan
SBDJ wrote :
A lot of lights have S2L mode selectable as a value in DMX meaning you can flip between S2L and preprogammed scenes simply by selecting appropriately configured scenese.
Indeed, but some of my older lights (ACME Super Leo) don't have S2L on DMX it's either or! Maybe replacing these soon anyway. I also have a couple of non-DMX lights but I do have a couple of DMX power switches which I intend to use to control them for blackout etc.
SBDJ wrote :
Edit: I've just written a test plugin that allows VDJ to control Freestyler, including S2L triggering using the CBG grid.
Scott... You excel yourself as ever ;-)
Does Frestyler need to be on the same PC as VDJ for this to work?
Cheers,
Roy
Posted Wed 18 Aug 10 @ 7:52 am
SBDJ
Yes it does at the moment, but it's possible to make it work over a network connection too..
Posted Wed 18 Aug 10 @ 8:21 am
asymptote
Don't know if anybody has come across the American DJ MyDMX dongle and software. i was thinking of trying it!
Posted Wed 18 Aug 10 @ 9:28 am
SBDJ
Quite a few users over on MDJF are happy with it...
Posted Wed 18 Aug 10 @ 9:41 am
sirwesley
I have made a few DMX USB dongles as well and work with the public drivers from Enttec.
Might want to check out: http://diylightanimation.com/
I am an active member of this forum as well, which has lots of neat DMX related stuff. (Wireless DMX, 16 channel Dimmer boxes) - All DIY (need some soldering skills), but there are also users on there that sell ones that they've assembled and don't need anymore.
Here's a video of a "Production" I put on at my house using the DMX products from that website and a program called "Vixen" (not a dynamic program, more a build it and play it):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp2K3X99cBo[/youtube]
Might want to check out: http://diylightanimation.com/
I am an active member of this forum as well, which has lots of neat DMX related stuff. (Wireless DMX, 16 channel Dimmer boxes) - All DIY (need some soldering skills), but there are also users on there that sell ones that they've assembled and don't need anymore.
Here's a video of a "Production" I put on at my house using the DMX products from that website and a program called "Vixen" (not a dynamic program, more a build it and play it):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp2K3X99cBo[/youtube]
Posted Wed 18 Aug 10 @ 11:35 am
