Proto
If you use Beatlock you are obvious not hearing how bad it sounds. Same with Master Tempo. It just means you dont have enough experience and need to practise your skills more.
Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 9:13 am
Man-Tk
Bealock use BPM ...and BPM detection is NOT PERFECT in VDJ ... I think : if you use Beatlock feature your mixes aren't good ...it's imposible ...sometimes Beat 1 in Vdj isn't REAL beat 1 ...so maybe you are mixing beat 1 (song in deck 1) with beat 2 (song in deck 2) ...... the songs are mixing together but not in phase .....
You can do what you want but always YOU CAN LEARN..... to use the ears is not a bad thing !!!
You can do what you want but always YOU CAN LEARN..... to use the ears is not a bad thing !!!
Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 9:51 am
djbambi
> "Not trying to start a fight here"
Well, you started a fight the minute you opened a NEW topic starting with "(others)...and DJBambi mock DJ's that use the beatlock function", then you went on and on about "us guys" mocking the VDJ product and belittling other users of the software. You associated with me some words I've never said and made it a big issue. To justify myself after being blatantly attacked, I had to come back here and copy/paste what I said in the other thread. Please re-read my words above carefully and tell me specifically what you do not agree with. If truth hurts, then please follow your own words of "just be yourself and stop focusing on other people's opinion of you", and chanel your energy towards something useful, like learning to beatmatch by ear and experience the "beatmatch flange" and the goosebumps that go with it :) that will also let you mix, for a bit more than a few seconds, a live Santana track on top of some smooth house while the sun is rising on your after-hours beach set...
Now, let's make this "discussion" somewhat useful:
Contrary to what you assumed, I USE THE BEATLOCK FUNCTION. Like DJ Andre Landry, "I always cue up with it on and then turn it off", because it is indeed a fantastic time-saver (and I do it with a 4-beat loop). If VDJ was consistent in its CBG positioning, I would probably leave it on during the mix itself, but at least half of the time I have to turn it off to fine-tune the beatmaych by ear / waveform. As WirelessDj mentioned, "it always seem a bit off". I actually posted a workaround to this problem a long time back, and a suggestion for user-friendly improvement: see my post in http://www.virtualdj.com/forum/display.html?topic=405&page=2. It's in french but basically it's about adding a "metronom reference CBG" to VDJ to accurately (by ear) beatmatch all your tracks to the same reference CBG: if track A is beatmatched to reference track, and track B is beatmatched to reference track, then track A is beatmatched to track B. Doesn't mean they'll go well together, but at least it means that beatlock is usable on them, provided they're electronic tracks with a constant tempo.
Well, you started a fight the minute you opened a NEW topic starting with "(others)...and DJBambi mock DJ's that use the beatlock function", then you went on and on about "us guys" mocking the VDJ product and belittling other users of the software. You associated with me some words I've never said and made it a big issue. To justify myself after being blatantly attacked, I had to come back here and copy/paste what I said in the other thread. Please re-read my words above carefully and tell me specifically what you do not agree with. If truth hurts, then please follow your own words of "just be yourself and stop focusing on other people's opinion of you", and chanel your energy towards something useful, like learning to beatmatch by ear and experience the "beatmatch flange" and the goosebumps that go with it :) that will also let you mix, for a bit more than a few seconds, a live Santana track on top of some smooth house while the sun is rising on your after-hours beach set...
Now, let's make this "discussion" somewhat useful:
Contrary to what you assumed, I USE THE BEATLOCK FUNCTION. Like DJ Andre Landry, "I always cue up with it on and then turn it off", because it is indeed a fantastic time-saver (and I do it with a 4-beat loop). If VDJ was consistent in its CBG positioning, I would probably leave it on during the mix itself, but at least half of the time I have to turn it off to fine-tune the beatmaych by ear / waveform. As WirelessDj mentioned, "it always seem a bit off". I actually posted a workaround to this problem a long time back, and a suggestion for user-friendly improvement: see my post in http://www.virtualdj.com/forum/display.html?topic=405&page=2. It's in french but basically it's about adding a "metronom reference CBG" to VDJ to accurately (by ear) beatmatch all your tracks to the same reference CBG: if track A is beatmatched to reference track, and track B is beatmatched to reference track, then track A is beatmatched to track B. Doesn't mean they'll go well together, but at least it means that beatlock is usable on them, provided they're electronic tracks with a constant tempo.
Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 1:30 pm
DJ Raz
Ok let's end this...
But first:
********************************************
Quote Proto:
-"If you use Beatlock you are obvious not hearing how bad it sounds. Same with Master Tempo."
Beatlock has zero impact on the sound.
All it does is match the BPMs and keep the beats in phase.
Maybe you meant that just because you have beatlocked enabled, it doesnt mean that the 2 songs will go together?
Well yeah, if that's what you meant, then I fully agree with it since it's all I've been saying in this post. (might wanna re-read it)
Master Tempo does indeed sound bad. I have that option turned off until the algorithms get better. (again, I've mentioned that earlier)
And more from Proto:
-"It just means you dont have enough experience and need to practise your skills more."
Ok... time to put my money where your mouth is. (just skip to the end of the post).
********************************************
Quote Man-Tk
-"Bealock use BPM ...and BPM detection is NOT PERFECT in VDJ ..."
Yes, I fully agree. BPM detection is actually pretty bad in VDJ unless you use it on electornic music (dance, house, techno, trance)
That is why it's important to manually test all your songs for the right BPM before using beatlock on them.
-"I think : if you use Beatlock feature your mixes aren't good ...it's imposible ..."
I'll be posting one of my mixes (done stricly through vdj).
At that point we'll see what is and what is not possible :-)
-"You can do what you want but always YOU CAN LEARN..... to use the ears is not a bad thing !!!"
Again I agree. It's a plus to be able to match beats with your ears (especially if you are following another DJ and need your VDJ song to follow his Vinyl song)
*********************************************
Quote djbambi
-" like learning to beatmatch by ear and experience the "beatmatch flange" and the goosebumps that go with it :)"
I never said I didn't know how to beatmach by ear :)
I wrote the post to stand up for all users of VDJ, whether they can or cannot beatmatch by ear.
*********************************************
Now to put this discussion to rest, I'd like to put up one of my mixes done striclty with VDJ and with beatlock on 95% of the time.
Everyone can then decide for themselves if using Beatlock makes you a "virtual dj" who "needs more practice" and who's "mixes aren't good".
Is there a way we can upload mix files on this site (it's gonna be pretty big)
or if not does anyone know a server that can host it?
Thanks.
But first:
********************************************
Quote Proto:
-"If you use Beatlock you are obvious not hearing how bad it sounds. Same with Master Tempo."
Beatlock has zero impact on the sound.
All it does is match the BPMs and keep the beats in phase.
Maybe you meant that just because you have beatlocked enabled, it doesnt mean that the 2 songs will go together?
Well yeah, if that's what you meant, then I fully agree with it since it's all I've been saying in this post. (might wanna re-read it)
Master Tempo does indeed sound bad. I have that option turned off until the algorithms get better. (again, I've mentioned that earlier)
And more from Proto:
-"It just means you dont have enough experience and need to practise your skills more."
Ok... time to put my money where your mouth is. (just skip to the end of the post).
********************************************
Quote Man-Tk
-"Bealock use BPM ...and BPM detection is NOT PERFECT in VDJ ..."
Yes, I fully agree. BPM detection is actually pretty bad in VDJ unless you use it on electornic music (dance, house, techno, trance)
That is why it's important to manually test all your songs for the right BPM before using beatlock on them.
-"I think : if you use Beatlock feature your mixes aren't good ...it's imposible ..."
I'll be posting one of my mixes (done stricly through vdj).
At that point we'll see what is and what is not possible :-)
-"You can do what you want but always YOU CAN LEARN..... to use the ears is not a bad thing !!!"
Again I agree. It's a plus to be able to match beats with your ears (especially if you are following another DJ and need your VDJ song to follow his Vinyl song)
*********************************************
Quote djbambi
-" like learning to beatmatch by ear and experience the "beatmatch flange" and the goosebumps that go with it :)"
I never said I didn't know how to beatmach by ear :)
I wrote the post to stand up for all users of VDJ, whether they can or cannot beatmatch by ear.
*********************************************
Now to put this discussion to rest, I'd like to put up one of my mixes done striclty with VDJ and with beatlock on 95% of the time.
Everyone can then decide for themselves if using Beatlock makes you a "virtual dj" who "needs more practice" and who's "mixes aren't good".
Is there a way we can upload mix files on this site (it's gonna be pretty big)
or if not does anyone know a server that can host it?
Thanks.
Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 8:39 pm
Dach
I think what Proto might have meant by "how bad it sounds" when using Beatlock is that if you start the second song at just some random time, it has to time-stretch the song to get it to line up with the first song, and it does indeed sound bad to have a song time-stretch over a single beat. If you try to start the second song as close to the original beat as possible (which you should be doing anyway), beatlock can only sync up the beats within ~5% without noticeably distorting the second song. This is also assuming you're cold-starting song 2 with the xfader in the middle.
Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 11:37 pm
Proto
What I meant was that if you rely on beatlock to try to keep your mixes perfect, you aren't listening good enough because beatlock doesnt match perfectly. Or you mix in and out very fast. VDJ enables you to keep two songs in sync for ages if you have the right controller and do it manually. I can't think of any reason why you want to use beatlock at all.
Posted Tue 16 Nov 04 @ 9:22 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Why do you want to LOCK the beats ?? thats my only questions...
Of course you want to MATCH the beats, but LOCK? I use SYNC button, that will start the track on deck 2 in SYNC with deck 1, hence they will be beat MATCHED... I can then nudge the deck 2 so that they sound good, because there are such things as first beat of a bar matching etc that will make the mix sound better...
I'm just saying that SYNC for MATCH.. and then have the freedom to spin and nudge deck 2 while you prelisten, so that you can find a good spot, right first beat by first beat match etc is a lot better than just LOCK the beats from deck 2 to deck 1...
but maybe thats just me... donno... ;)
A small note: (the beat LOCK feature was acutally made for songs that did not have an even beat, like older disco songs that where recorded live and therefore would not stay in beat with another track. By using the LOCK feature VDJ would adjust it so that it would stay in beat, even if it did not have a steady beat, by adjusting it continously)
Of course you want to MATCH the beats, but LOCK? I use SYNC button, that will start the track on deck 2 in SYNC with deck 1, hence they will be beat MATCHED... I can then nudge the deck 2 so that they sound good, because there are such things as first beat of a bar matching etc that will make the mix sound better...
I'm just saying that SYNC for MATCH.. and then have the freedom to spin and nudge deck 2 while you prelisten, so that you can find a good spot, right first beat by first beat match etc is a lot better than just LOCK the beats from deck 2 to deck 1...
but maybe thats just me... donno... ;)
A small note: (the beat LOCK feature was acutally made for songs that did not have an even beat, like older disco songs that where recorded live and therefore would not stay in beat with another track. By using the LOCK feature VDJ would adjust it so that it would stay in beat, even if it did not have a steady beat, by adjusting it continously)
Posted Tue 16 Nov 04 @ 1:57 pm
mp3jrick
To add to this:
As I posted prior, with the "B" keyed to "beatlock", "MOMENTARY", it will sync with a touch of the "B" key the same way as the sync button works.
Mix the track on the cue and poke the "B" key to align perfectly during the fade.
By using the mix now button the pitch will reset automatically also.
As I posted prior, with the "B" keyed to "beatlock", "MOMENTARY", it will sync with a touch of the "B" key the same way as the sync button works.
Mix the track on the cue and poke the "B" key to align perfectly during the fade.
By using the mix now button the pitch will reset automatically also.
Posted Tue 16 Nov 04 @ 3:52 pm
DJ Raz
I use Beatlock so that I dont accidently press/click something that can make the songs out of sync. I usually have 2 songs playing at once, so it's important that they stay in synch.
I may have found a solution to server space.
Once I do, I'll post my mix.
I may have found a solution to server space.
Once I do, I'll post my mix.
Posted Tue 16 Nov 04 @ 7:47 pm
DJ Raz
Ok found some webspace and posted the mix.
I started a new thread for it:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forum/display.html?topic=8191
I started a new thread for it:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forum/display.html?topic=8191
Posted Wed 17 Nov 04 @ 5:25 am
DJ Andre Landry
You guys are funny! man everytime a dbl clik a song to mix i beatmatch then use beatlock to align cbgs....if you know the music you are mixing you can do this even without headphones.Once the mix is in i use the sync button if needed bust most of the music we mix is created with 909 drum machine witch is pretty stable.IF you are equed right on the mixing board it sounds just fine.I have two huge monitors in the booth so when i mix i can heard my dancefloor.
So to most who flip out on this feature...well once again i use it ALL THE TIME...
Beatmixing with turntables or dual cds is easy and is for the beginner, but the truth is once you have gotten over the fact that you are able to match two beats together.You will realize that these are primitive ways of djing.
The time it takes to find the record cue up find the right break check the sound if your good you can do this in 2 to 3 min. You can remix a song live totally live in the same amount of time with vdj
Turntables are for scratching and cds make a good back up
Andre
So to most who flip out on this feature...well once again i use it ALL THE TIME...
Beatmixing with turntables or dual cds is easy and is for the beginner, but the truth is once you have gotten over the fact that you are able to match two beats together.You will realize that these are primitive ways of djing.
The time it takes to find the record cue up find the right break check the sound if your good you can do this in 2 to 3 min. You can remix a song live totally live in the same amount of time with vdj
Turntables are for scratching and cds make a good back up
Andre
Posted Sat 20 Nov 04 @ 10:35 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
"....The time it takes to find the record cue up find the right break check the sound if your good you can do this in 2 to 3 min. You can remix a song live totally live in the same amount of time with vdj..."
Exactly... But thats why I dont LOCK the beat, but only SYNC.
So that I'm free to use the jogweels to spinn back or forward to find that right place, that right break, that right first beat in a bar etc etc... ;)
but, hey... we are not getting anywhere with this discussion ;) loool... hehe... we have all different preferences, different ways of getting what we want...
SO,
I try to conclude this thread by saying VDJ have TWO nice features that you can use, both beatMATCH (sync) and beatLOCK - and we all seem to prefer one over the other, and as long as we all get the result we want, all are happy ;) lol..
happy mixing you all! ;)
Exactly... But thats why I dont LOCK the beat, but only SYNC.
So that I'm free to use the jogweels to spinn back or forward to find that right place, that right break, that right first beat in a bar etc etc... ;)
but, hey... we are not getting anywhere with this discussion ;) loool... hehe... we have all different preferences, different ways of getting what we want...
SO,
I try to conclude this thread by saying VDJ have TWO nice features that you can use, both beatMATCH (sync) and beatLOCK - and we all seem to prefer one over the other, and as long as we all get the result we want, all are happy ;) lol..
happy mixing you all! ;)
Posted Sat 20 Nov 04 @ 2:23 pm