Tear Em 'Up
Can we please stop with the global warming talk? Accurate weather records have only been kept for a little over a hundred years. The planet is BILLIONS of years old. We have no way of knowing if this is a natural progression of the planet or not. Should we be concerned?.....YES!!! However we cannot continue to throw the blanket term "Global Warming" onto every weather oddity that happens. So I support smart action..but not continued blowing smoke up Al Gore's behind. However I could be wrong..I'm just a cavemen.
Posted Fri 12 Oct 07 @ 11:42 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
TearEmUp wrote :
However I could be wrong..I'm just a cavemen.
However I could be wrong..I'm just a cavemen.
Not trying to be rude here, Terry, but I think you speak out of lack of knowledge.
The Greenhouse effect was discovered as early as 1824.
And almost all scientists says its within 90 percent certainty that current global warnings is due to man-made greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions.
The Worlds leaders did not make a Kyoto deal without reason. They know what importance this all is.
Its about delaying the global warming that will lead to disaster, and on a later stage new ice age.
It will happen sooner or later regardless.. But better in a million years, than within next 100 years.
Posted Fri 12 Oct 07 @ 11:53 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Or to use the words of Al Gore himself :
I am deeply honored to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. This award is even more meaningful because I have the honor of sharing it with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change–the world’s pre-eminent scientific body devoted to improving our understanding of the climate crisis–a group whose members have worked tirelessly and selflessly for many years. We face a true planetary emergency. The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest opportunity to lift global consciousness to a higher level.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 12:01 am
Tear Em 'Up
I respectfully disagree Rune. I have investigated this fully, as I do most things I comment on. As I stated..we really have no way of knowing if this is just another step in the planets development or not. Lack if informations is a deadly thing.
As an example Yellowstone National park here in the U.S. In 1872 Pres. U.S. Grant created the park. It sat pretty much undisturbed until 1903. Within ten years of 1903 the teaming landscape was gone forever. How? Man, the park managers took a series of steps with what they assumed were good intentions. They began with attempting to increase the elk herds. So they killed off the wolves. The elk population exploded, and eat so much grass the the ecology had changed, forever. The elk switched to trees, this action killed off the beavers. That in turn caused the meadows to dry up, the beavers were instrumental in water management of the area. Once the beavers were gone the meadows dried up. Which in turn caused a catastrophic loss of trout, and otter. Not to mention the soil erosion increase. By the 20s it was clear....there were too many elk. So the park rangers began to kill them off.
All of this could have been avoided if man had let nature run its course. This is just one example of many I can cite of our lack of knowledge, coupled with good intentions, that has caused ruin to a natural ecosystem. Now Rune, my friend, imagine this sort of "well intentioned" action.....on a global scale. We lack enough hard evidence gathered over a long enough period of time. Our record keeping is not even close to one tenth of one percent of the planets life. Like I said, yes we should be careful. Yes, we should pay attention. Yes, we need to be aware and try to live in harmony with the planet. But we cannot make a truly informed and intelligent decision without a whole bunch more information.
The mean temperature world wide has only raised 0.74 degrees F in the last hundred years. If the Kyoto Protocols had been signed off on and followed by all since 1998 the effects would have been different by only -0.02C. (source Nature Magazine #22 October 2003). Makes you think doesn't it? We can discuss this in private and I will be more than happy to give you lots of reference material.
As an example Yellowstone National park here in the U.S. In 1872 Pres. U.S. Grant created the park. It sat pretty much undisturbed until 1903. Within ten years of 1903 the teaming landscape was gone forever. How? Man, the park managers took a series of steps with what they assumed were good intentions. They began with attempting to increase the elk herds. So they killed off the wolves. The elk population exploded, and eat so much grass the the ecology had changed, forever. The elk switched to trees, this action killed off the beavers. That in turn caused the meadows to dry up, the beavers were instrumental in water management of the area. Once the beavers were gone the meadows dried up. Which in turn caused a catastrophic loss of trout, and otter. Not to mention the soil erosion increase. By the 20s it was clear....there were too many elk. So the park rangers began to kill them off.
All of this could have been avoided if man had let nature run its course. This is just one example of many I can cite of our lack of knowledge, coupled with good intentions, that has caused ruin to a natural ecosystem. Now Rune, my friend, imagine this sort of "well intentioned" action.....on a global scale. We lack enough hard evidence gathered over a long enough period of time. Our record keeping is not even close to one tenth of one percent of the planets life. Like I said, yes we should be careful. Yes, we should pay attention. Yes, we need to be aware and try to live in harmony with the planet. But we cannot make a truly informed and intelligent decision without a whole bunch more information.
The mean temperature world wide has only raised 0.74 degrees F in the last hundred years. If the Kyoto Protocols had been signed off on and followed by all since 1998 the effects would have been different by only -0.02C. (source Nature Magazine #22 October 2003). Makes you think doesn't it? We can discuss this in private and I will be more than happy to give you lots of reference material.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 12:32 am
bagpuss
Science aside,
In my view it's really quite simple, not purely in terms of global warming but the earths stability in general. If you think of the sheer amount of crap that we send up into the sky (from cars, factories etc) it only makes sense that this is doing more harm than good, it's a fact that the energy we use is dirty and is causing problems, and the problems are getting bigger and bigger, we need to convert to clean energy, I think that this is the greatest challenge that we face.
In my view it's really quite simple, not purely in terms of global warming but the earths stability in general. If you think of the sheer amount of crap that we send up into the sky (from cars, factories etc) it only makes sense that this is doing more harm than good, it's a fact that the energy we use is dirty and is causing problems, and the problems are getting bigger and bigger, we need to convert to clean energy, I think that this is the greatest challenge that we face.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 12:44 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Is it human related? Doesnt matter... what matters is if our pollution makes the ice age come faster than normally would be... And OF COURSE it does harm..
How much does not matter, just that it speeds up the process is enough.
Make a greenhouse and you will see how it works
I think you need to move closer to the artic circle, where I live, to really comprehend and see how thing change as we speak.
To say there is not a global warming going on, is to me as insane as saying the Jews where never killed by the Nazis. Like some say...
When I was kid, my whole town was covered in snow EVERY winter, now we are lucky to see 10cm of snow 5-10 days in January.
And to show how delicate it is, those SMALL numbers that the Kyoto Protocols lower the heat increase means LOADS..
1 degree more average, is catastrophical, because it melts down the Poles
And I really think you need to move outside Bush administrations propaganda to see the real truth... Its a cost Bush is not willing to take, cause USA is in huge debt, and cant slow down economical progress with environment taxes.
2007 has been the worst year ever...
The changes in ice melt alone in the year 2007 have shocked scientists. In early September, Robert Corell, Chairman of the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, reported: “We have seen a massive acceleration of the speed with which the Greenland glaciers are moving into the sea. The ice is moving at 2 meters (6.5 feet) an hour on a moving front of ice that is 3 miles long and 932 miles deep. That means this one glacier puts enough fresh water into the sea in one year to provide drinking water for a city the size of London for an entire year.”
The rapidly increasing ice melt in 2007 means that sea level rise is going to be faster as well. Dr. Corell now estimates oceans will rise at least 2 meters, or about 7 feet. This will be catastrophic for all shoreline populations, causing massive dislocations of humans and animals around the world’s coastlines.
This is due to the VERY LOW increase in average temperature World Wide...
Is it human related ? Doesnt matter... what matters is if our pollution makes the ice age come faster than normally would be...
And you can make a labratory test to show that greenhouse effects make higher temperature.
Heck just make a greenhouse in your backgarden and you will see what the effect is..
How much does not matter, just that it speeds up the process is enough.
Make a greenhouse and you will see how it works
I think you need to move closer to the artic circle, where I live, to really comprehend and see how thing change as we speak.
To say there is not a global warming going on, is to me as insane as saying the Jews where never killed by the Nazis. Like some say...
When I was kid, my whole town was covered in snow EVERY winter, now we are lucky to see 10cm of snow 5-10 days in January.
And to show how delicate it is, those SMALL numbers that the Kyoto Protocols lower the heat increase means LOADS..
1 degree more average, is catastrophical, because it melts down the Poles
And I really think you need to move outside Bush administrations propaganda to see the real truth... Its a cost Bush is not willing to take, cause USA is in huge debt, and cant slow down economical progress with environment taxes.
2007 has been the worst year ever...
The changes in ice melt alone in the year 2007 have shocked scientists. In early September, Robert Corell, Chairman of the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, reported: “We have seen a massive acceleration of the speed with which the Greenland glaciers are moving into the sea. The ice is moving at 2 meters (6.5 feet) an hour on a moving front of ice that is 3 miles long and 932 miles deep. That means this one glacier puts enough fresh water into the sea in one year to provide drinking water for a city the size of London for an entire year.”
The rapidly increasing ice melt in 2007 means that sea level rise is going to be faster as well. Dr. Corell now estimates oceans will rise at least 2 meters, or about 7 feet. This will be catastrophic for all shoreline populations, causing massive dislocations of humans and animals around the world’s coastlines.
This is due to the VERY LOW increase in average temperature World Wide...
Is it human related ? Doesnt matter... what matters is if our pollution makes the ice age come faster than normally would be...
And you can make a labratory test to show that greenhouse effects make higher temperature.
Heck just make a greenhouse in your backgarden and you will see what the effect is..
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 12:48 am
Tear Em 'Up
Bush has nothing to do with this. My winters were the same as yours when I was a child. In 1967 we had a snow that was so deep the entire mid-west was shut down for days. During the 70s we had six winters that were so bad scientist believed we were in a mini ice age. All of this actually supports my statements. We lack enough knowledge to take positive action. If we are going to praise Gore, it does matter if it is human related. The only group of Man to live in complete harmony with the planet another group of Man killed off. History shows we are our own worst enemy, not George Bush, or Al Gore. Man...not a man.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 12:59 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
TearEmUp wrote :
We lack enough knowledge to take positive action. .
We lack enough knowledge to take positive action. .
well thats where we disagree..
- We all know for a fact that human pollution leads to greenhouse effect
- We all know that greenhouse effect increase global temperature
what scientist disagree on is how much impact it does mean, but everybody agree on that there IS an impact.
And as long as thats clear to all, we should do something to lower the impact, even if it should end up at being little. Better safe than sorry....
Or hang around doing nothing, and end up at the slight small possibility of worst case scenario?
http://www.newscientist.com/blog/environment/2006/12/arctic-ice-going-going.html
I'd rather try change and be dead wrong about it, than take the risk of doing nothing
Ice age will come regardless, its part of natural cycles...
But rather in a 100.000 years (as natural http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_glaciation ), than in less than 100 years (human pollution http://www.playfuls.com/news_003307_Ice_Age_2040_The_Meltdown_of_the_North_Pole.html )
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:08 am
DJ Marcel_1
I agree with terry On this one.
There Is No Conclusive Proof that the Greenhouse Effect is a Valid Theory.
There have been at least 3 Glacial Periods that we know of.
And Conversly warm periods of NO arctic Ice whatsoever.
Look into DR David Suzuki's research. He's one of the World's pre-eminante Evriomentalists and Sciencetists.
Oh BTw Guys, It's Impossible to discuss thius without the Science being Solid; and Like Terry Said - There's No Solid Proof.
There Is No Conclusive Proof that the Greenhouse Effect is a Valid Theory.
There have been at least 3 Glacial Periods that we know of.
And Conversly warm periods of NO arctic Ice whatsoever.
Look into DR David Suzuki's research. He's one of the World's pre-eminante Evriomentalists and Sciencetists.
Oh BTw Guys, It's Impossible to discuss thius without the Science being Solid; and Like Terry Said - There's No Solid Proof.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:14 am
Tear Em 'Up
dj-in-norway wrote :
I'd rather try change and be dead wrong about it, than take the risk of doing nothing
Action yes.....throwing caution to the wind no......
BTW ask Al Gore about his private jet, which creates more than its fair share of greenhouse gases. Ask him about his ranch, the state he lives in declared it one of the least eco-friendly dwelling in his state. If the man really truly cared he would travel coach, and clean up his own back yard. Its another example of the elite telling the rest of the world to do as they say, not as they do. Try raising a child that way, it never works.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:16 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
You guys miss the point.. Proven or not, there is surely a general concern..
and the idea is better to be safe than sorry... and less pollution is good even if it has less impact than some expect...
With the greenhouse effect still uncertain, why take preventive steps, especially since the main one, burning less coal, would be enormously expensive? One answer is that it it may take years to acquire positive proof of greenhouse-induced climate change, and the longer society waits, the larger a warming it will have to adapt to if the greenhouse theory turns out to be valid. Even a small warming could produce violent changes in climate. At worst, the Gulf Stream might shift course, failing to warm Europe. Sea level could rise 20 feet if the West Antarctic Ice Cap melts, flooding coastal cities from New York to New Orleans.
New York Times
And thats exactly the point.. Why take a chance of doing nothing, when the possible danger is this large
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:25 am
Tear Em 'Up
dj-in-norway wrote :
New York Times
Oh Rune, not the New York Times........LMAO!!!! They are famous as a left wing liberal media source.......
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:32 am
wildcountryclub
blah. we do this. they say that. and still nothing gets done. we're just gonna have to Sky hack into a global network and let all our sunday trance dj's chill everyone out.
i can't stop being a dj. our profession is locked into the cycle of pollution just like everything else. whether its the pollution from the manufacture of computers and all our other equipment, or the electricity it takes to run them, i dont see any of us giving up our jobs to lead the way.
time to lock this one down and move onto more important things like 2 deck automix and a version of VDJ so stable it NEVER crashes no matter how messed up the computer is, so people arent looking at us in mid-drink/dance wondering why the music stops.
i was happily married once and am working on being happily married again with the new and improved model (who btw thinks global warming is pretty much a bunch of hot air and thinks its not gonna matter in the long run cause she wants to see higher temperatures and smaller bikinis)
i can't stop being a dj. our profession is locked into the cycle of pollution just like everything else. whether its the pollution from the manufacture of computers and all our other equipment, or the electricity it takes to run them, i dont see any of us giving up our jobs to lead the way.
time to lock this one down and move onto more important things like 2 deck automix and a version of VDJ so stable it NEVER crashes no matter how messed up the computer is, so people arent looking at us in mid-drink/dance wondering why the music stops.
Bagpuss wrote :
I'm happily married actually but thanks for the invite ;).
wildcountryclub wrote :
give yourself to the dark side... we get laid more.
I'm happily married actually but thanks for the invite ;).
i was happily married once and am working on being happily married again with the new and improved model (who btw thinks global warming is pretty much a bunch of hot air and thinks its not gonna matter in the long run cause she wants to see higher temperatures and smaller bikinis)
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:35 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
TearEmUp wrote :
Oh Rune, not the New York Times........LMAO!!!! They are famous as a left wing liberal media source.......
dj-in-norway wrote :
New York Times
Oh Rune, not the New York Times........LMAO!!!! They are famous as a left wing liberal media source.......
I'd rather be safe with the left wing liberals, and be concerned, than possibly end up in a disaster with right wing Bush followers ;)
Anyways, Al Gore got the prize, and great is that.. totally deserved
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:38 am
bagpuss
I think in Europe it's generally accepted as fact, whilst in the U.S it's not so widely accepted.
The fact of the matter is not rocket science; even a child can understand this: If you do not respect the environment, the environment will not respect you.
It's really simple that isn't it? As environmental pollution increases, the environments stability weakens, as we are reaching greater and greater extremes in terms of pollution we are experiencing greater and greater natural disasters.., it's a fact that both of these things are linked, and both of these things are increasing.
WE NEED TO CHANGE, it's obvious, but people always want to cause doubt about fact (when it might mean them having to change).
Don't live in a delusion for Gods sake.
The fact of the matter is not rocket science; even a child can understand this: If you do not respect the environment, the environment will not respect you.
It's really simple that isn't it? As environmental pollution increases, the environments stability weakens, as we are reaching greater and greater extremes in terms of pollution we are experiencing greater and greater natural disasters.., it's a fact that both of these things are linked, and both of these things are increasing.
WE NEED TO CHANGE, it's obvious, but people always want to cause doubt about fact (when it might mean them having to change).
Don't live in a delusion for Gods sake.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:39 am
Tear Em 'Up
wildcountryclub wrote :
(who btw thinks global warming is pretty much a bunch of hot air and thinks its not gonna matter in the long run cause she wants to see higher temperatures and smaller bikinis)
She have a sister?..Sounds like my kind of girl.....
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:39 am
wildcountryclub
TearEmUp wrote :
She have a sister?..Sounds like my kind of girl.....
wildcountryclub wrote :
(who btw thinks global warming is pretty much a bunch of hot air and thinks its not gonna matter in the long run cause she wants to see higher temperatures and smaller bikinis)
She have a sister?..Sounds like my kind of girl.....
yes, she weighs in at around 210, and is rather mentally challenged and has 2 kids. the sister that is.
mine's a cop. handcuffs included.
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:42 am
Tear Em 'Up
dj-in-norway wrote :
I'd rather be safe with the left wing liberals, and be concerned, than possibly end up in a disaster with right wing Bush followers ;)
Who says I am right wing, actually I am middle of the road and make up my own mind. Not allow anyone person, party, group decide which way I believe.
"if a person is not conservative at 20 they will be at 50" Winston Churchill
But I do love ya Runey...... ;-)~
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:42 am
Tear Em 'Up
wildcountryclub wrote :
TearEmUp wrote :
She have a sister?..Sounds like my kind of girl.....
yes, she weighs in at around 210, and is rather mentally challenged and has 2 kids. the sister that is.wildcountryclub wrote :
(who btw thinks global warming is pretty much a bunch of hot air and thinks its not gonna matter in the long run cause she wants to see higher temperatures and smaller bikinis)
She have a sister?..Sounds like my kind of girl.....
OK cut her in half..add three kids and shes my ex.......on second thought nevermind....
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 1:43 am
listen2
i didnt want to read all 39 posts because i'm pressed for time but think about this...
Al Gore didnt make any movie or do any research. He just had some scientists work their asses off and then like a pimp take all the credit. I think once he knew he was not as popular in government after losing to dopey bush he took this global warning hoopla and ran with it for more attention. What does global warming have to do with peace anyways??? and Gore is sharing this award with about 2000 other people that did the dirty work. 2000 people now can say they have received a nobel peace prize, doesn't that take the honor out of it?
It is certainly possible for the earth to be in some sort of phase where things get a bit warmer then usual, it happened before somewhere in the 1400-1500's where things got cold and thousands of people died, a global freezing (i guess). So these things can happen reguardless of man.
The question remains are we entirely responsible for this change? and is Al Gore really such a great man? who knows!
I do agree it's better to be safe then sorry. please recycle :)
Al Gore didnt make any movie or do any research. He just had some scientists work their asses off and then like a pimp take all the credit. I think once he knew he was not as popular in government after losing to dopey bush he took this global warning hoopla and ran with it for more attention. What does global warming have to do with peace anyways??? and Gore is sharing this award with about 2000 other people that did the dirty work. 2000 people now can say they have received a nobel peace prize, doesn't that take the honor out of it?
It is certainly possible for the earth to be in some sort of phase where things get a bit warmer then usual, it happened before somewhere in the 1400-1500's where things got cold and thousands of people died, a global freezing (i guess). So these things can happen reguardless of man.
The question remains are we entirely responsible for this change? and is Al Gore really such a great man? who knows!
I do agree it's better to be safe then sorry. please recycle :)
Posted Sat 13 Oct 07 @ 6:26 am
