anewsome
in short, it was not pretty. not by a long shot. multiple failures throughout the night but none that i wasn't able to recover from pretty gracefully. most of the failures i made to look like, "i meant to do that". only once did i have complete sound stop and dead silence in the venue, which isn't that bad really (could have been worse). still, it's unacceptable. any failure during gig is not acceptable to me.
first i'll preface this with the fact that i had vdj running all week long playing videos in automix mode to make sure that a.) i didn't have any corrupt or otherwise unplayable music videos in my collection. i ripped them all myself from promo only and i've used these same videos to play at this same spot (using windows media player). i didn't expect any corrupt videos, and there weren't any. .. and b.) as a side benefit to checking corrupt vides, i also get mostly accurate bpm and file length filled in for most of my files. why the bpm calculator is still not as accurate as mixmeister is still a bit of a mystery though.
so here's the recap of the failures:
1st of all, the promoter who promoted the night was like a kid at christmas since he could not wait to see 4.1 in action. he was waaaay more excited than i was to have vdj out at the venue for the 1st time. this is a VERY large venue with 40+ plasma screens and 3 100+ inch projected screens. basically, the perfect place to spin music videos on a friday night.
He was very excited to see it all work and could barely contain himself. The excitement wore off a bit as I had to restart VDJ three times in order for it to have tcv working on both channels. I'd already ran into this at home. Sometimes when you start vdj, tcv only works on 1 channel or the other. So I finally got it to work and I started playing videos through the venue.
3rd song in. FREEZE. TCV stopped working on the left side. Just stopped about midway through the song, dead silence and a freeze frame image on 40 plasmas and 3 huge projections screens. I could have just unchecked the tcv engage button and press play but I already had a video cued on the other side so I scratched the intro like I meant to do some kind of dramatic transition. The satellite video transition around that frozen image of fergie i think, made it seem somewhat believable. The only dramatic thing however is that I could not believe that 3 songs in on my first night out, I have a failure like that. The promoter guy really wasn't interested in this mickey mouse setup after that failure. The other video dj he hires is a well known Pioneer DVJ guy and he's used to that kind of stability.
Anyway, so that was my first failure of many that night. It was however the only one that caused dead silence in the venue.
After that freeze, I could not get the timecode working on the left side. I kept trying to get it working, while still DJing the event and keeping the videos going. Nothing, 0% in the TCV setup. There is nothing wrong with my needles, sl-1 or any of my hardware. So I DJ'd most of the night with TCV on the right and mouse and keyboard on the left. Not an ideal situation for mixing and beatmatching. In case you're wondering, I beatmatch with my ears and records.
So I get a request for a song I don't have a video for and I play the mp3 instead. It just happened that the mp3 was played on the left side. After I played the mp3, then the TCV started working again. It didn't fail like that again. This was a 6.5 hour gig so roughly 3 hours the TCV stayed broken, and 3 hours it was working. The 3 hours it was working was defintely better.
The other failures were ALL video problems of some kind. Three times the video just froze while the audio kept playing. Program didn't crash, everything still working, TCV signal still 100%, just a frozen image on the screen though. This happened on both sides. All three times, I simply loaded the same video on the other side and mixed over to it like I meant to do that. Nobody really noticed, they may have even thought it was cool. But it wasn't. Failures while performing live are not cool. At all. Note, that the video is not corrupted, as it played fine on the other deck, all the way through everytime this failure occured.
The next type of failure was a video I loaded and quick mixed and there was no video at all. Just audio. I simply loaded the same exact video file on the other deck and rocked a couple bars of doubles like I meant to do that. The sattelite transition made it look kinda cool, again like I meant to do it. It was the video in one little window against a black backdrop (no video). It looked cool but it wasn't. It was yet another failure in this performance.
So if you're counting, that FIVE failures in one performance. FIVE fellas, one of them causing dead silence in the venue, which is the one thing I despise the most.
I was going to get into TCV issues in general but this post is already way too long. I'll make another TCV topic.
first i'll preface this with the fact that i had vdj running all week long playing videos in automix mode to make sure that a.) i didn't have any corrupt or otherwise unplayable music videos in my collection. i ripped them all myself from promo only and i've used these same videos to play at this same spot (using windows media player). i didn't expect any corrupt videos, and there weren't any. .. and b.) as a side benefit to checking corrupt vides, i also get mostly accurate bpm and file length filled in for most of my files. why the bpm calculator is still not as accurate as mixmeister is still a bit of a mystery though.
so here's the recap of the failures:
1st of all, the promoter who promoted the night was like a kid at christmas since he could not wait to see 4.1 in action. he was waaaay more excited than i was to have vdj out at the venue for the 1st time. this is a VERY large venue with 40+ plasma screens and 3 100+ inch projected screens. basically, the perfect place to spin music videos on a friday night.
He was very excited to see it all work and could barely contain himself. The excitement wore off a bit as I had to restart VDJ three times in order for it to have tcv working on both channels. I'd already ran into this at home. Sometimes when you start vdj, tcv only works on 1 channel or the other. So I finally got it to work and I started playing videos through the venue.
3rd song in. FREEZE. TCV stopped working on the left side. Just stopped about midway through the song, dead silence and a freeze frame image on 40 plasmas and 3 huge projections screens. I could have just unchecked the tcv engage button and press play but I already had a video cued on the other side so I scratched the intro like I meant to do some kind of dramatic transition. The satellite video transition around that frozen image of fergie i think, made it seem somewhat believable. The only dramatic thing however is that I could not believe that 3 songs in on my first night out, I have a failure like that. The promoter guy really wasn't interested in this mickey mouse setup after that failure. The other video dj he hires is a well known Pioneer DVJ guy and he's used to that kind of stability.
Anyway, so that was my first failure of many that night. It was however the only one that caused dead silence in the venue.
After that freeze, I could not get the timecode working on the left side. I kept trying to get it working, while still DJing the event and keeping the videos going. Nothing, 0% in the TCV setup. There is nothing wrong with my needles, sl-1 or any of my hardware. So I DJ'd most of the night with TCV on the right and mouse and keyboard on the left. Not an ideal situation for mixing and beatmatching. In case you're wondering, I beatmatch with my ears and records.
So I get a request for a song I don't have a video for and I play the mp3 instead. It just happened that the mp3 was played on the left side. After I played the mp3, then the TCV started working again. It didn't fail like that again. This was a 6.5 hour gig so roughly 3 hours the TCV stayed broken, and 3 hours it was working. The 3 hours it was working was defintely better.
The other failures were ALL video problems of some kind. Three times the video just froze while the audio kept playing. Program didn't crash, everything still working, TCV signal still 100%, just a frozen image on the screen though. This happened on both sides. All three times, I simply loaded the same video on the other side and mixed over to it like I meant to do that. Nobody really noticed, they may have even thought it was cool. But it wasn't. Failures while performing live are not cool. At all. Note, that the video is not corrupted, as it played fine on the other deck, all the way through everytime this failure occured.
The next type of failure was a video I loaded and quick mixed and there was no video at all. Just audio. I simply loaded the same exact video file on the other deck and rocked a couple bars of doubles like I meant to do that. The sattelite transition made it look kinda cool, again like I meant to do it. It was the video in one little window against a black backdrop (no video). It looked cool but it wasn't. It was yet another failure in this performance.
So if you're counting, that FIVE failures in one performance. FIVE fellas, one of them causing dead silence in the venue, which is the one thing I despise the most.
I was going to get into TCV issues in general but this post is already way too long. I'll make another TCV topic.
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 7:33 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Wow. Sorry to hear that.. Was hoping your system was tweaked better for VDJ by now, and that the gig would run fine...
I'm really sorry to hear it did not run as well as hoped..
I'm just as frustrated as you, as you know by now that I want this to work for you, for several reasons.
But first of all since we've had some communication about this in the past, trying to help you.
I really dont know to technical deetail why you had any of the above insidents, and I'm just so damn frustrated that video mixing works perfect for sooooooo many users, yet a few (like you) have problems.
Is it video card? Maybe..
Is it IRQ or hardware conflict ? (doubt that by the fixing you did)
Is it VDJ? Maybe... But why does it run perfect for others..
I'm no Wizzard Of Os, but I'm still hoping for 100% sucess for VDJ with you.. Just unsecure about what to do next.
Video djs all over the place have even thrown away the Pioneer dvd decks, because of VDJ...
And I would love to see you rock that Pioneer dj out of that place ;) hehe
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 7:46 pm
anewsome
Hey look at the brightside Norway,.. no audio crackles or pops during the performance. Not one. Actually, not one sound related issue all night really. Although I should say that I run with EVERYTHING off in VDJ. That is, no keylock, master tempo, auto gain, etc. Just as a matter of habit from back in the days of trying to eliminate the crackles.
I can honestly say the sound engine in 4.0 is as good as SSL. Sound quality is a HUGE deal.
As far as the video, maybe I should try the Windows Media Player as the decoder since WMP has NEVER failed on any of my videos. These people that are doing heavy video mixing with 100% stability and zero issues, what decoder do they use? I use the default that vdj has in there.
I can honestly say the sound engine in 4.0 is as good as SSL. Sound quality is a HUGE deal.
As far as the video, maybe I should try the Windows Media Player as the decoder since WMP has NEVER failed on any of my videos. These people that are doing heavy video mixing with 100% stability and zero issues, what decoder do they use? I use the default that vdj has in there.
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 8:04 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
They use VDJ encoder.
But, ok.. I'm quite happy to hear about no crackles, and you saying sound quality is great ;)
So, its video....
K, hoping that all the video dudes will jump on this wagon an tell their stories now..
But in short. What video format do you use ?
VOB's conflict with some cards (it seems)
MPEG works great for all
Divx6 works great for some.
AVI & WMV sucks
trying to move forward.. Want that Pioneer dj out of your gig place ;) hehe
Good thread here:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/57379/General_Discussion/What_Video_Format___My_Findings.html
But, ok.. I'm quite happy to hear about no crackles, and you saying sound quality is great ;)
So, its video....
K, hoping that all the video dudes will jump on this wagon an tell their stories now..
But in short. What video format do you use ?
VOB's conflict with some cards (it seems)
MPEG works great for all
Divx6 works great for some.
AVI & WMV sucks
trying to move forward.. Want that Pioneer dj out of your gig place ;) hehe
Good thread here:
http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/57379/General_Discussion/What_Video_Format___My_Findings.html
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 8:18 pm
bagpuss
Sorry to hear about your bad experience anewsome. This can probablly be sorted without an update, I wish I ran Video more extensively and then I could do more to help, I'm sure other users will have better insight, as Video is running excellently for the majority :).
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 9:02 pm
anewsome
Norway, all of my videos are ripped from PromoOnly DVDs. All of them ripped to vob format with the RipDVD app included with VDJ. Nothing fancy, pretty standard stuff. Looks like I may be in the market for yet a FOURTH computer to try and get video mixing working correctly, although I don't think I should have to buy another computer, if I do I think I'll take your advices and get a real computer and not a laptop. I might have a little cash in a bit here,.. finally getting some bites on this one:
http://www.anewsome.com/911.html
http://www.anewsome.com/911.html
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 9:08 pm
DJ Cyder
Laptop+video mixing = bad idea
The real question here is why can my 600 dollar real computer outperform a 3500 dollar laptop?
the specs are
Althon 64 3000+
1 gig pc3200 ram
6600 gt video card
wave terminal 192L soundcard + maya 44
Flawless video mixing since 3.0 every version not a glitch.
The real question here is why can my 600 dollar real computer outperform a 3500 dollar laptop?
the specs are
Althon 64 3000+
1 gig pc3200 ram
6600 gt video card
wave terminal 192L soundcard + maya 44
Flawless video mixing since 3.0 every version not a glitch.
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 9:28 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Well, video mixing should work on laptops too.. ;)
And it does on mine.
Using MPEG though, not VOBs... havent tested that much.
A LOT of djs will never bring a desktop around to different clubs, so if there is anything to be done regarding laptop use and video mixing, it should be considered.
Or try to find specs that do work....
My laptop with ATI, and with all powermanagements turned to "desktop mode", + using a tool for full cpu cycles (desktop mode), gives me absolutely no issues regarding the use of VDJ ;)
If I had to drop the laptop for VDJ to work, me using dj software would end too ;) seriously..
Desktop is NOT an option to drag around to gigs. Not at all .. for me.
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 9:38 pm
anewsome
Remember guys, I played videos on this laptop with VDJ for 48 HOURS STRAIGHT using automix. Not a single failure. This tells me video works pretty good on here. Once I add TCV and started mixing it up, that's when things went south.
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 9:46 pm
DJ Cyder
Norway you know your are my VDJ brother
But
Laptop technology isn't there yet the only laptop i've ever seen perform reasonably well is an alienware one about 6000 us with is bascially a desktop with a hinged monitor. I've carried a cube pc to clubs i've worked a and its not a problem for me. A few of the clubs i've worked even had a pc in the booth so it was really easy to interface. My system can play any video i throw at it and then some. I can even post here while mixing 2 videos with effects and never see a frame drop ever. I dunno about you guys but seeing mpg-1 on a plasma is just plain ugly. I'll say it again laptops don't do video well.
But
Laptop technology isn't there yet the only laptop i've ever seen perform reasonably well is an alienware one about 6000 us with is bascially a desktop with a hinged monitor. I've carried a cube pc to clubs i've worked a and its not a problem for me. A few of the clubs i've worked even had a pc in the booth so it was really easy to interface. My system can play any video i throw at it and then some. I can even post here while mixing 2 videos with effects and never see a frame drop ever. I dunno about you guys but seeing mpg-1 on a plasma is just plain ugly. I'll say it again laptops don't do video well.
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 9:48 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
I know what your saying Cyder, and I'm for sure your VDJ brother ;)
But I'll try to explain where I come from.... ;)
There are (at least) two types of djs :
The Rackmount mobile dj
- Do company gigs, weddings, bars and other events.
- Often show up before the gig, and rigg his equipment
- Travel heavy with speakers, rackmount, lights and more
- Dont always know in advance what audience to expect, so carry large amount of music to gig
- Are happy building rackmounts vertically, and are used to this way of working
- Mobile units packed together (racks).
- Positive to a desktop being part of the rack.
The CLUB dj
- Do gigs at nightclubs, and occationally bars
- Show up at the gig usually even after the place have opened up (before crowd comes)
- Travel very light, only bring music, as the club already have the equipment preinstalled.
- Know in advance what to expect, and carry far less music than the above. Often just a few cases of cds', vinyls or mp3s. Very specialised kind of music, one or two genres, latest hits.
- Work horizontally, with mixer in middle, and decks (controls) on each side of mixer.
- Plug n play mentality, where you travel light, bring your music, plug in & play.. then go home
- Negative to desktop, and laptops are the only way. Fitted in a dj bag, light weight travel.
Now, this dj is ME (and I think Anewsome is the same breed)
I would never ever use a DAC, a rackmount system or a desktop... ;)
Probably hard to understand, but its a fact ;) No hard feelings, just the way it is.
I'm like Jessy Jeff from that other software, that shows up with his mac, does his thing, and leave.
Or Dennis Ferrer with VDJ, that take a cab to Queen Paris, plug is laptop in, rocks the place, go home ;)
I know laptops are not as good as desktop, by any means...
But I can play Battlefield 2 on my laptop, I can play with VDJ and videos on my laptop...
So can Anewsome..
So it all perfect it seems.. 48 hours auto mixing videos perfectly.
But add timecode to the equation, and Anewsome have issues. If that is something Steph can fix, I would be damn happy, and Anewsome too ;)
We're the laptop djs ;) the ones you all hate... hehe ;)
We're vain, travel light, get drunk and take cab... lol
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 10:00 pm
anewsome
Or the third type of DJ:
The Southern California Club DJ:
- Shows up to the gig with as much equipment can fit in a record bag (ssl box, control records, laptop, needles, headphones and not much else)
- Usually DJing with at LEAST 2 or 3 other DJs
- May only get an hour set, sometimes less
- Frequently spins clubs with DJ partners trading off using the same laptop for both people
- Sometimes needs to plug in and go right in the prime of the night, in a DJ booth he's never seen
- Runs into about 60% clubs with SSL boxes pre-installed
- Even for mixing video, setting up an LCD and PC is out of the question
So club gigs are going to continue using laptops for me. If I go with a desktop, it'll be for corporate type gigs, weddings, school dances, private parties, etc.
But right now, my cheap ways are trying to figure out how to make what I already have work!
The Southern California Club DJ:
- Shows up to the gig with as much equipment can fit in a record bag (ssl box, control records, laptop, needles, headphones and not much else)
- Usually DJing with at LEAST 2 or 3 other DJs
- May only get an hour set, sometimes less
- Frequently spins clubs with DJ partners trading off using the same laptop for both people
- Sometimes needs to plug in and go right in the prime of the night, in a DJ booth he's never seen
- Runs into about 60% clubs with SSL boxes pre-installed
- Even for mixing video, setting up an LCD and PC is out of the question
So club gigs are going to continue using laptops for me. If I go with a desktop, it'll be for corporate type gigs, weddings, school dances, private parties, etc.
But right now, my cheap ways are trying to figure out how to make what I already have work!
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 10:10 pm
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
Yupp.. you have it even harder than me, as you work together with other djs...
Anyways, gotta go ;) see you all later or tomorrow..
Club opened 15mins ago, gotta pack my laptop in my dj bag, with headset and a few cd's.
Call a cab, drink a few beers and have a blast djing.... Probably take a staff beer after closing hours, then cab home.. (with or without a blonde.. lol).
Then wake up, and live my other life... as a forum slave here... ;)
All above being addictive... ;)
See ya all ;) have the best saturday nite...
Posted Sat 14 Oct 06 @ 10:18 pm
anewsome
Ok, I just confirmed that I'm not crazy and that the TCV just stopped working at random on 1 side. I'm doing some maintenance, setting BPMs, cue points, etc at home and the same thing happened here as did last night. TCV just stops working on one side, 0% signal. Restarting the program fixes it.
Does anyone know what is causing this to happen or have any good ideas why maybe?
Does anyone know what is causing this to happen or have any good ideas why maybe?
Posted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 12:52 am
bagpuss
anewsome, Are you saying that one minute TCV is working properly for x amount of minutes and then through no action of your own, one side suddenly fails to work?
Posted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 3:16 am
anewsome
Bagpuss wrote :
anewsome, Are you saying that one minute TCV is working properly for x amount of minutes and then through no action of your own, one side suddenly fails to work?
I'm saying that exactly. Not even touching the laptop, midway through the song the TCV just stopped working so I went with keyboard and mouse on that side for a few hours. TCV kept working on the other side though. I verified there was nothing wrong with my turntable or needle by doing a swap trick. As expected, they worked fine on the swap.
Posted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 4:30 am
bagpuss
hmm very odd, it definitely sounds like a bug although no one else has reported a simular experience, so it's likely it could be a bug triggered by a temporary deficiency in required resources, i.e memory. VDJs memory usage does seem to randomly fluctuate, and when your pushing your system close to the edge in normal circumstances it doesn't take much of a memory fluctuation to push things over the edge. You have 1GB of dedicated ram?
Posted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 4:41 am
mp3jrick
Well i'm a number one, hold the pickels and mayo.....
Wish I knew more about tcv, set up can make all the difference.
I can do pretty much anything with a track and not have a freeze, skip or lock up.
And it's always been that way.
I thought you guys had this all figured out with this latest super laptop.
Say what you will about the software, but i'd like to see SSL scratch a vob on a laptop first.
It's apples and oranges folks.
Wish I knew more about tcv, set up can make all the difference.
I can do pretty much anything with a track and not have a freeze, skip or lock up.
And it's always been that way.
I thought you guys had this all figured out with this latest super laptop.
Say what you will about the software, but i'd like to see SSL scratch a vob on a laptop first.
It's apples and oranges folks.
Posted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 5:30 am
jasontgrove
DJ Cyder writes "Laptop+video mixing = bad idea "
I have to disagree. I bought the most expensive notebook that I could afford, to try and make this VJing thing, work with VDJ.
My notebook specs are as follows:
Dell E1705 Inspiron
Intel Duo Core 2 2.06ghz
Windows XP Home
2GB RAM (Ram over 512 really doesn't improve video unless you don't use hardware accel.)
internal 2-channel sound card (split outputs for use of 2-mixer channels)
USB video drive
the video card is the Ati Radeon Mobility X1400 256 MB
This machine is only $1300 from Dell and destroys many desktops out there. Benchmark tests prove this!!
AVI files are actually not bad to use in VDJ. If you have a good setup and a card that can utilize "hardware accel" the right way, AVI files work flawlessly although they do tend to load a bit slower than mpeg, the quality is better for the filesize. If you can not use "hardware accel" they are a lot more harsh on the system resources and stability. Also if you run an Mpeg with "hardware accel" turned on...it usually is fine. The AVI tends to freeze, on systems that don't have a decent video card.
I have been using 4.1 for a few nights now and have not had any trouble. In my eyes, and my system setup, I feel that all the problems and issues have been corrected in this release.
Video mixing with VDJ and usage of all available effects and options, with the "best" settings, requires A LOT of resources. I personally would not recommend anyone video mix with this software unless they have atleast a multi-core or multi threading CPU, and that's just for starters! Unfortunately I just have come to believe that most people's problems that they encounter with VDJ stem from a low end cpu or a low end video card.....and no matter how much you try to "tweaK" a low end system, I honestly feel that you won't get great results. VDJ should never be run with systems that only meet the minimal specs, unless the user acknowledges that they will encounter many many problems with stability and speed.
It's unfortunate that video mixing requires such a high end computer setup, but think about it... before this, the only other option was atleast 2 $1,000 minimal Pioneer DVD Pro Players, the video preview lcd's, and so on.
I will however say that there are other programs out there that will run videos, and they don't require such a high end setup, but they also don't do anything more than crossfade and offer few effects, and horrible sound output. VDJ offers a hell of a lot more!
Hope this helped a few people.
Jason G
I have to disagree. I bought the most expensive notebook that I could afford, to try and make this VJing thing, work with VDJ.
My notebook specs are as follows:
Dell E1705 Inspiron
Intel Duo Core 2 2.06ghz
Windows XP Home
2GB RAM (Ram over 512 really doesn't improve video unless you don't use hardware accel.)
internal 2-channel sound card (split outputs for use of 2-mixer channels)
USB video drive
the video card is the Ati Radeon Mobility X1400 256 MB
This machine is only $1300 from Dell and destroys many desktops out there. Benchmark tests prove this!!
AVI files are actually not bad to use in VDJ. If you have a good setup and a card that can utilize "hardware accel" the right way, AVI files work flawlessly although they do tend to load a bit slower than mpeg, the quality is better for the filesize. If you can not use "hardware accel" they are a lot more harsh on the system resources and stability. Also if you run an Mpeg with "hardware accel" turned on...it usually is fine. The AVI tends to freeze, on systems that don't have a decent video card.
I have been using 4.1 for a few nights now and have not had any trouble. In my eyes, and my system setup, I feel that all the problems and issues have been corrected in this release.
Video mixing with VDJ and usage of all available effects and options, with the "best" settings, requires A LOT of resources. I personally would not recommend anyone video mix with this software unless they have atleast a multi-core or multi threading CPU, and that's just for starters! Unfortunately I just have come to believe that most people's problems that they encounter with VDJ stem from a low end cpu or a low end video card.....and no matter how much you try to "tweaK" a low end system, I honestly feel that you won't get great results. VDJ should never be run with systems that only meet the minimal specs, unless the user acknowledges that they will encounter many many problems with stability and speed.
It's unfortunate that video mixing requires such a high end computer setup, but think about it... before this, the only other option was atleast 2 $1,000 minimal Pioneer DVD Pro Players, the video preview lcd's, and so on.
I will however say that there are other programs out there that will run videos, and they don't require such a high end setup, but they also don't do anything more than crossfade and offer few effects, and horrible sound output. VDJ offers a hell of a lot more!
Hope this helped a few people.
Jason G
Posted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 7:17 am
djcel
"video decoder" is an internal decoder of VirtualDJ but it uses your main codec. So for .vob , on my computer, it uses the decoder of PowerDVD (which is very good).
The Nero codec is good too but the one of WinDVD is very bad
The Nero codec is good too but the one of WinDVD is very bad
Posted Sun 15 Oct 06 @ 10:51 am
