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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: A matter of perception...also known as snob factor! - Page: 1

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After reading the posts in the "If you ran Atomix" thread, I thought it would be interesting to create a skin that looks like another product and use it to see what reaction I got from using VDJ in a normally "hostile to VDJ" environment.

So this was the skin (and no, it will NOT be submitted!)...



So, what I did was on my own night I ran Traktor Pro 2 along with my Kontrol S4, whilst the following night (at the same venue), I ran VDJ with the "Traktor" skin along with my Kontrol S4.

On my own club night, I had several conversations with people (some DJ's, some punters) regarding not only the S4 but also TP2...with everyone saying that they either love TP2 or that it was on there shopping list.

The following night, I again had several conversations with people regarding the S4 and "Traktor"...again with positive comments for both...it was only one eagle eyed guy that noticed the VDJ logo and started to quiz me. I finally came clean and said that it was actually a skin for VDJ that I put together to test peoples perception.

What was interesting was that the guy is anti-virtual dj (for reasons best known to himself), but until he spotted the logo, he had no idea he was watching VDJ being used. It was quite amusing watching him try and back-track on previous negative comments he made about VDJ and trying to justify his staunch position with regards to Traktor.

I also had a punter talk, at length, about how much better Traktor was than VDJ...but he soon left when I told him, he was actually looking at VDJ.

It was an interesting test that revealed peoples mis-conceptions about products.

Oh...and in case your wondering, the browser is only accessible via the browser_zoom function (using this method, replicates how the S4 interacts with TP2).
 
Posted Mon 09 May 11 @ 5:26 am
That's great Simon,

However if anyone came up to me and tried talking about shop whilst I was Djing I would quickly end the conversation, all their doing is fishing for info. Don't be stupid enough to give it to em!
 
Charlie...whilst I do understand what your saying, I'm afraid that, from my point if view, talking to punters (and fellow DJ's) is part of what we do.

If we stand aloof and don't appear approachable, we risk alienating ourselves from essentially the very people that make this wonderful job possible.

In the places I play, I know a lot of people and most make special trips when I'm playing, because I'm not just the DJ, I'm someone that they like and know that I'll talk to them - don't get me wrong, if I'm busy, I do let them know...and because I do take time to talk to them, they understand and don't take offence - plus it's easier to say no to playing Rihanna for the 50th time that night!...lol
 
That looks good. I wish I could make my own skin.

& yes I know what u mean. I have one of the old "Serato" skins & I load that up when I'm working a club with other DJ's just 2 get a reaction and have that "VDJ is so amateur" conversation. Then after a few songs there asking questions like how long have I been dj'ing & then they start asking what box am I using for my serato then I tell them nothing this is VDJ....Then they have the stunned look on their face
 
I get other "pro Dj's" coming up almost every weekend and telling me how I should be using Seratto instead of VDJ because "all the real Dj's like myself and my crew do"...I politely ask tell them "I have an open mind, where are you working and I'll come check out your show and show me all the wonderful things Seratto will do VDJ can't". Of course I can hardly hold back the laughter when they always tell me "I'm not working anywhere right now....but I'm gonna start playing out soon."

As I have always said Seratto, #1 among unemployed Dj wanna be's
 
Well played, Mr. Bailey. And the skin is lovely.
 
Thanks for the comments...

One thing I will say is, please do not ask for this skin to be sent to you (I have already received requests!), as I will always refuse.

Atomix has a strict (and proper) policy of not distributing skinis that give the appearance of other products and whilst I have no formal association with Atomix, besides being a Pro Licence user, I respect, and agree with, their view on this.

Just to re-iterate (in caps and bold, so there's no confusion)
THIS SKIN WAS MADE ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONDUCTING A PERCEPTION TEST AND WILL NOT BE DISTRIBUTED.
 
One thing that does surpise me with the software "debate" is the varying costs of the main players...

Virtual DJ Pro 7 retails at £262.41

Traktor Pro 2 retails at £165.00

whilst Itch is only available (as far as I can tell) as a hardware/software solution, so prices start at expensive and rise to astronomical.

The reason I bring this up is one of the comments I often hear is that VDJ is "cheap" and you get what you pay for...well I'm afraid that that doesn't appear to hold true, as TP2 is nearly £100 cheaper...

Yes I do appreciate the varying abilities of the applications (TP2 has no video element), so the pricing is liable to be different.

Maybe Atomix should consider splitting VDJ Pro into two products:

Virtual DJ Pro Audio - No video and retail price point similiar to TP2

Virtual DJ Pro Video - as is, at the current price point.

This would allow users to choose which product they wish to purchase. I for one never use the video capabilities of VDJ (and can't ever seeing me doing so), so all the extra cost for that element has been wasted on me.
 
Hi there,
I'm a new (german) user of VDJ PRO. For gigs (I DJ for almost 22 years now) I use 2 OTUS RAW with T2PRO atm but I'm very unhappy with the latency of the platters. I'm a professional software developer and so I tweaked the RAWs with HiRes MIDI and MIDI-OX filters so they are quite usable... but then I ordered a NUMARK V7 for testing and I can tell You one thing: I will never touch the RAWs again... the one I still can return is on it's way back to the distributor ;-) and the second V7 is already here...
But then something strange happened: I DJ with TRAKTOR since the very first versions and I have been their beta tester several times... but always a PRO PAYING USER! But this time they made me really angry: They removed a feature from the MIDI learn function of T 1.2.3 in T2PRO to prevent the use of the motorized platters of the V7! They simply do not support the V7!
And ITCH is really no way for me (You can't customize anything, do the authors think DJs are stupid or what??). I started to search for alternatives and NUMARK has CUE 7, as I read this is a special OEM version of VDJ... Then I read about VDJ and bought the PRO version and everything worked out of the box after about 10 minutes config. I'm really impressed, because here in germany DJs as well laugh at VDJ-Users.
But fortunately I don't have to proove something and so I will play with VDJ the forthcoming weekend! Of course I will do some stresstests before the gig ;-)

But if You're interested in my opinion about the unprofessional touch of VDJ:
As I mentioned before I'm a software developer. You can compare the VDJ/TRAKTOR/SERATO story with the LINUX/WINDOWS story: Under LINUX You can customize everything to your needs and this very nice but it leads into a very big problem: You have no standards! Everybody knows how to control WINDOWS and You don't have to worry about the look and feel. But under LINUX You have too many choices, every application looks and behaves a bit different and THIS LEADS TO the opinion that the product is unprofessional. Of course LINUX is not unprofessional (You can see this is the server market) but as soon as You need a user interface it has the unprofessional and unfamiliar touch!

This was the first thing I thought when I saw VDJ! It simply doesn't look professional, no font standards and so on. Of course the skin feature is one of the most-requested for T2PRO but I think the fact that You can't skin T2PRO is it's main advantage...

Of course after I tried VDJ i was impressed and i will use it for my gigs, but i can understand younger DJs who still have to proove themselves, they don't want to justify themselves for not using the 'coolest and newest' TRAKTOR version.

In one of the clubs I play there are TRAKTOR S4 DJs with T2PRO and they are happy about the sample decks ;-) If You didn't know better You could think NI just invented the sampler ;-))

But what I really miss in VDJ is a real PRO SKIN, only as many colors as You need, only as many different fonts You need (normally You only need 1??), following some style guidelines, the rest is perfect!

Chris
 
[quote=But what I really miss in VDJ is a real PRO SKIN, only as many colors as You need, only as many different fonts You need (normally You only need 1??), following some style guidelines, the rest is perfect!

Chris[/quote]

Are you kidding? VDJ has some of the most pro looking skins you could imagine. Maybe you should look through the skins download section again as the skin designers for VDJ have done a phenominal job. Video Vision, Condensed, V-Mix, Mix Lab...just to name a few.

What determines a "pro looking" skin anyway, isn't it up to the individual? If you don't think the VDJ skins a pro looking enough ask someone to design one to your specs...can't do that with Trakktor or Seratto.

I would rather have a skin that works and is laid out the way I think and I manage my workflow rather than a skin then someone else thinks looks good any day of the week anyway.

Just my humble opinion.
 
I'd be inclined to agree with ChristianHoefl on many things.

The Linux-analogue makes sense in a lot of ways. Like Linux, Virtual DJ is pure dynamite under the bonnet assuming you're prepared to give it time to tweak it to perfection and make sure you have the right hardware and the said hardware is properly configured. Accordingly, like Linux it's relatively easy to screw up VDJ if you have no idea what you're doing.

Moreover, like Linux VDJ is also somewhat suffering from general lack of polish and little details on the user interface department. This is a very typical phenomenon on the Linux/open source world, where development teams have strong programming talents but are struggling to find UI/UX-experts.

As for user-made skins...I caused quite a stir back in the day when I expressed my honest opinion about them, so I'm not going to open that can of worms again. Suffice to say I think one professional looking skin would be enough and one of the best ways to give a professional image about the product.
 
AuralCandy.Net wrote :
As for user-made skins...I caused quite a stir back in the day when I expressed my honest opinion about them, so I'm not going to open that can of worms again. Suffice to say I think one professional looking skin would be enough and one of the best ways to give a professional image about the product.


I was one of those involved in that debate and I am still trying to understand wht makes a "professional skin" other than personal taste? I am a professional Dj who uses a professional software and very much like several of the skins...therefore to me that makes them professional.

Trakktor (and Seratto to a lesser degree) I find to be very un-user friendly. This is based on the way my mind thinks and what I consider important operationally. Something can be attractive (which neither Seratto or Trakktor are) and still be "professional", in fact good aesthetics and graphics "polish" are in my opinion a requirement to be professional.

Maybe we should ask the users what they think the top three properties of a skin make it "professional" or "unprofessional"....I'll Start:

Professional:
1) All of the consistantly used functions available up front and not hidden in a complicated combination of keystrokes, "multi purpose" buttons and lenghty menus.
2) Easy to find, read and operate controls and buttons.
3) Clear and aesthetically pleasing graphics and high contrast colors for easy visibility in dark Dj booths.

Unprofessional:
1) Too many infrequently or never used controls cluttering up the interface
2) Poor contrast, cluttered and distracting color combinations and "fad" graphics (i.e. watermarked backgrounds, artist, movie, gaming or other "themed" skins).
3) Inconsistant and randomly arranged clusters of buttons and functions (i.e functions usually used in sequence seperated in different areas of the skin).
 
Simon Bailey wrote :
Just to re-iterate (in caps and bold, so there's no confusion)
THIS SKIN WAS MADE ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF CONDUCTING A PERCEPTION TEST AND WILL NOT BE DISTRIBUTED.


So, can you send me a copy of this skin???????? I'm sorry, I had to do it.
 
Yo DJ-e-lectric, I'm with you. This is just my opinion, but I think some of us spend way too much time thinking about what other people think about us. Not for nothing but, what makes a skin professional looking? The second part of that is, who gives a shit? Quite simply, if it works well for me, it's professional. Does it function well in a professional environment, it's professional. The new club I work in, I have seen six other DJs. Four use Tracktor, one uses Serato, and one uses VDJ on a MAC. There may be others working that I don't know about. Not one of these guys has said one negative word to me about my software. Granted, my persona is out there, and does not lend itself to silly stuff. You have to come to me correct, because I am prepared and relentless. However the main reason they don't mess with me is because I am a professional. I am on time, work harder than any one else, and can do things that no one else can do. I am all video, have live camera feeds, custom audio & video drops, unlimited amount of material, a great voice, great mixing skills, and sometimes a great personality (Like I said, sometimes). Wait till I get Text to screen. So as long as I can access my music, click a button and it works, what more do I need to be professional? I'm sorry but what the skin looks like, does not fit into the picture. Well, if it was bright pink, with flowers and butterflies on it, I may have to switch.
 
AMAHM, funny you should mention that, i was working on a skin just like that... :D

Anywho, I have mixed views on this...

See first off, we VDJ users are referred to as bedroom DJs, but when they see our software in action, they quickly shut their mouth or attack a less important aspect of the software. This is why many mention a visual facelift, and quite frankly, it isn't needed. like AMAHM said, if it works, its pro.

However, in a world where brand determines skill (we know what skill is REALLY based on), VDJ needs a facelift. Countless vids of idiots bashing VDJ and using SSL or TP2 (with terrible skills, I might add) have made up the image of the software. You don't know how many of those idiots come up at gigs and start talkin shit.

Based on these two observations of mine, I'd say just give "them" (self-conscious DJs who end up switching software to improve their image)* what they want, a software facelift, whilst the professionals keep doing what they are doing, .

P.S.: Professionals don't go downing other softwares

* "them" was not regarding anybody in this thread and if i have offended you, I apologize.
 
AMAHM...it's in the post...along with the Dodo eggs you wanted for your breakfast...lol
 
It's all about internal consumption really...

Let me start with this:
In the hardware world there is Pioneer and Numark, Denon e.t.c.
Most Dj's use Pioneers. Pioneer is considered to be the top of the line Professional CD Players manufacturing company.
Now there are 2 questions:
1) Is Pioneer products more professional than Denon products?
2) Is a Dj more professional if he's using Pioneers instead of using Numarks ?

What about their layout ?
Is having the CUE button ABOVE PLAY more professional from having CUE button BEFORE PLAY ?

Is having White CDJ's (For instance white CDJ-350) more professional than having Black CDJ's ?

At the end of the day do the people that go to clubs to HEAR MUSIC and DANCE really care if the CDJ's are white or black ?

All these stuff is for internal DJ-Debate consumption.
A medium class Dj using Pioneer CDJ-2000 will be worst than a top class Dj using Pioneer CDJ-350 ant that's a fact.
The only thing that matters on our job is to enjoy and please our customers. They don't care about the gear we use, nor they care about it's color.

Now, you can take all of the above and bring it on the software world.
You can actually ask the same questions again! Only the names of the brands will change. Nothing else!

Personally I don't give a s.......t for all of the above questions. I only care about the "power" of my software and it's functions. If my software has enough "power" to cover my needs I don't care even if there are only 20 people in the world using it.
If it doesn't cover my needs then I will go out and search for a new one that does. Simple as that!

BTW: Why should I care what this other Dj is using? If he is better than me and I want to "beat" him, changing my software won't make me better. It's other things that will make me be better and eventually beat him...

If I go to a Dj contest against David Guetta or Tiesto does anyone believe that changing my hardware gear to CDJ-2000 or my software to Traktor will make me better and even good enough to beat them?
If there is a Dj out there that thinks so then he shouldn't be called a dj at all since he lacks understanding of basic elements of the "dj-ing job / art"

Finally, 2 words on skins:
I can't see how skins harm any software title... I know hundreds of apps that allow skining and that didn't prevent them from becoming well known titles on their industry. Also I know that most people like customizing their things. From their cars to their pc's people have the tendency to customize their things to make them more unique or more suitable for their specific needs, or even just for fun...
That been said, ok maybe VDJ Team should consider to revise and change the theme of the default skin of the software (It has done so from version 5 to version 6) but that's all. One good thing with software is the fact that you can customize it and bring it to meet your own needs, and not the needs that a design team thinks you might have... That's the true power of software, and it is an ADVANTAGE, not a disadvantage.

Thanks!
 
I wanna grow up to be just like AMAHM.
 
Here's a question for the one's who think that VDJ has a "less than professional" layout: What specifically makes it "less than" professional in your minds?
 
I don't like the shading on the decks, it looks too round and makes the interface look like a toy, I would much prefer a flat deck



But what I would really love and gladly pay for in an app store, is a modular skin like in touchosc, that would be the missing link for the ultimate software customisation, and put it within reach of every user. This feature would also keep VDJ's image no matter what configuration the user decided to make their skin, as everyone would have a set of buttons, knobs, faders, wavforms etc... to choose from.
 
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