bagpuss
The debate is old, and overdisccused.., and it will be discussed, until the make or break of Digital DJ'ing and after, of course it is being made, because it is an uprade., as DVD, Digi cams etc, and most music played in clubs is created useing a PC, what is better to mix it on?, it's a real joke my friends!, a damn joke, anyone who who wants to argue the toss with extremist comments, in complete opposition to anything other than vinyl.
I like music, I like mixing, and any tool that allows me to play and mix music is great in my eyes, the gear varies in quality, but all the formats that allow for high quality playback, and high quality mixing, are great.
Also like the guy several posts above, he toke the most extreme example for a comparison, a "superstar" DJ useing a keyboard and mouse, firstly, it is a fact that many of the "superstar" DJ's (including Paul Van Dyk) have performed sets infront of large crowds, all over the world, with the added advantage (if you will) of a laptop.., useing various software, and all involved in the overall mix to varying degrees, Paul Van Dyk actually used his laptop to add some scratch sounds to his mix, because "he liked the sound", Pete Tong commented, "he brought his laptop along and we was like ok, we were interested to see what he could do with it", but those DJ's with money, who are successful, have alot to lose, so they are incredibly open, and eager to learn.., many of them use CD's alot now, and many more will get with software too, and include it in their performances to varying degrees, and for varies advantages.
Their are a few other tools that go hand in hand with Laptops, like Turntables, CD players, Mixers, Controllers etc, not all software provides mixing aid, and that software which does, often allows you to revert back to basics..
Next we'll have suicide bombers in clubs, because they hate DJ's useing Laptops, lol, come on, theirs better and more relevant things to discuss, and you'd have to be blind if you can't see a future in this, but don't worry, their is room for all kinds of DJ's.., who use all the different kinds of gear, worry more about being excellent.., because their are too many DJ's in this world, so if you want to show people your skills (in a nice big club) with turntables, CD decks, Software, or a combination of the three, you'll have to meet a high standard.
Bagpuss.
I like music, I like mixing, and any tool that allows me to play and mix music is great in my eyes, the gear varies in quality, but all the formats that allow for high quality playback, and high quality mixing, are great.
Also like the guy several posts above, he toke the most extreme example for a comparison, a "superstar" DJ useing a keyboard and mouse, firstly, it is a fact that many of the "superstar" DJ's (including Paul Van Dyk) have performed sets infront of large crowds, all over the world, with the added advantage (if you will) of a laptop.., useing various software, and all involved in the overall mix to varying degrees, Paul Van Dyk actually used his laptop to add some scratch sounds to his mix, because "he liked the sound", Pete Tong commented, "he brought his laptop along and we was like ok, we were interested to see what he could do with it", but those DJ's with money, who are successful, have alot to lose, so they are incredibly open, and eager to learn.., many of them use CD's alot now, and many more will get with software too, and include it in their performances to varying degrees, and for varies advantages.
Their are a few other tools that go hand in hand with Laptops, like Turntables, CD players, Mixers, Controllers etc, not all software provides mixing aid, and that software which does, often allows you to revert back to basics..
Next we'll have suicide bombers in clubs, because they hate DJ's useing Laptops, lol, come on, theirs better and more relevant things to discuss, and you'd have to be blind if you can't see a future in this, but don't worry, their is room for all kinds of DJ's.., who use all the different kinds of gear, worry more about being excellent.., because their are too many DJ's in this world, so if you want to show people your skills (in a nice big club) with turntables, CD decks, Software, or a combination of the three, you'll have to meet a high standard.
Bagpuss.
Posted Wed 27 Jul 05 @ 8:23 pm
anewsome
Well thanks for all the good comments guys. I also agree that using TCV will usually shut them up too, but I just bought my Technics DZ1200 CD players today so I won't be going TCV just yet. Don't know if you've ever seen a set of Technics DZ1200 CD players, but they look just like 1200Mk2 tables, well,... without the tonearm and stylus, a 10" platter as opposed to a 12" platter and all those extra buttons :-) But seriously, they like like turntables from 100 feet :-)
Honestly though, I didn't buy them to satisfy the TT snobs, I bought them because I think they will enable me to take my game to the next level!
Honestly though, I didn't buy them to satisfy the TT snobs, I bought them because I think they will enable me to take my game to the next level!
Posted Wed 27 Jul 05 @ 9:02 pm
bagpuss
An expensive and fine CD player, don't worry, top stuff.
Posted Wed 27 Jul 05 @ 9:22 pm
listen2
anewsome-----------why no more xp10's?? what about the xp10's were holding you back? i'm also curious about the 1200mk2 's you bought, they had a major price drop because they were not selling well. I would like to know if they work for you. i was trying to get them to work in the store but i couldn't even get the patter to spin, no one was there to help, you know how those guitar centers can be, if it don't have strings or not used by van halen no one wants to help you much :( i get the feeling now that vdj users are not completly happy with the controllers out. i myself tried TCV and i loved them but my system was not up to par so i have to do a bit of upgrading before i swin in the digital pool. Man what are you gonna do with that wonderful xp10 case you made???
Posted Wed 27 Jul 05 @ 9:30 pm
anewsome
listen2,.. still waiting for you to get your fully licensed version up and running :-)
Just to clear up, I did not buy 1200Mk2s, I bought CDZ1200 CD players. I spent about 3 hours one day comparing Pioneer CDJ1000, Denon and Technics. I even looked at that Numark CD player with the BIG vinyl record sitting on top of it. This was at guitar center too. I brought my own CDs and practiced scratching, cueing and beatmatching with all of them.
My Guitar Center has a "scratchmaster" in house and he blows me away in terms of skill. He much prefered the Pioneer CDJ for scratching because it is soooo precise and there is no lag when you "let go". The Technics and Denon are more like vinyl, if you just let go there is a very small amount lag before the track gets spinning up to speed. However, for me it felt more natural to give the platter a slight nudge forward when letting go - this is how I remember vinyl feeling.
As far as why my XP10 are retiring, I posted this in the VIP forum. Both of mine are near end of life and I just got them in February! In my opinion, something being sold as a professional DJ product should have a little longer life than that. I personally don't think the XP10 can withstand the rigors of proessional DJing, day in and day out. But I love the XP10s and did not want to talk about them negatively.
One thing I can guarantee though, my Technics 1200s will DEFINTELY last more than 6 months!
Just to clear up, I did not buy 1200Mk2s, I bought CDZ1200 CD players. I spent about 3 hours one day comparing Pioneer CDJ1000, Denon and Technics. I even looked at that Numark CD player with the BIG vinyl record sitting on top of it. This was at guitar center too. I brought my own CDs and practiced scratching, cueing and beatmatching with all of them.
My Guitar Center has a "scratchmaster" in house and he blows me away in terms of skill. He much prefered the Pioneer CDJ for scratching because it is soooo precise and there is no lag when you "let go". The Technics and Denon are more like vinyl, if you just let go there is a very small amount lag before the track gets spinning up to speed. However, for me it felt more natural to give the platter a slight nudge forward when letting go - this is how I remember vinyl feeling.
As far as why my XP10 are retiring, I posted this in the VIP forum. Both of mine are near end of life and I just got them in February! In my opinion, something being sold as a professional DJ product should have a little longer life than that. I personally don't think the XP10 can withstand the rigors of proessional DJing, day in and day out. But I love the XP10s and did not want to talk about them negatively.
One thing I can guarantee though, my Technics 1200s will DEFINTELY last more than 6 months!
Posted Wed 27 Jul 05 @ 10:28 pm
listen2
anewsome ....actually i'm using a different program i already had and using my TT the "real" way kidding. i get on here someday, i do not do gigs as a pro-man so not in a rush and cash is slim... i need to deal drugs or something....joke
Posted Wed 27 Jul 05 @ 10:35 pm
bagpuss
I've had my HDJC for about a year now, I use it 3-5 times a week, and it still works as it did when I bought it, dodgey play button, but all other functions, lights etc are going strong.
Posted Thu 28 Jul 05 @ 2:00 am
Rune (DJ-In-Norway)
World famous Dimtri from Paris was clubbing at my club... he used MP3 for his set, from a box
Digital djing is here to stay, and leading dj hardware companies are making mp3 support, and even software :) But Virtual DJ is way ahead any Pioneer dj software... :) hehe
Digital djing is here to stay, and leading dj hardware companies are making mp3 support, and even software :) But Virtual DJ is way ahead any Pioneer dj software... :) hehe
Posted Thu 28 Jul 05 @ 3:41 am
listen2
anewsome><
i have read reviews about those 1200cd tables and they are all very good but when playing mp3s(from a disc) i guess there is no remaining time counter which could leave you with dead air if its a new song or something but i suspect VDJ will be in full effect so no need to worry. can you post a demo with them i'd love to hear.
i have read reviews about those 1200cd tables and they are all very good but when playing mp3s(from a disc) i guess there is no remaining time counter which could leave you with dead air if its a new song or something but i suspect VDJ will be in full effect so no need to worry. can you post a demo with them i'd love to hear.
Posted Thu 28 Jul 05 @ 3:02 pm
Computer_DJ_Summit
""""Some vinyl djs will be forever opposed to new technology."""""
The above has always amazed me.... But its not just limited to vinyl djs, many cd djs have the same mentality when they should be focused on utilizing tools that give them a unique look and creative mixing style.
2005 Computer DJing Summit
http://www.computerdjsummit.com
The above has always amazed me.... But its not just limited to vinyl djs, many cd djs have the same mentality when they should be focused on utilizing tools that give them a unique look and creative mixing style.
2005 Computer DJing Summit
http://www.computerdjsummit.com
Posted Thu 28 Jul 05 @ 5:39 pm
Dj Flame
i say, its not how u get the end result, u can even play with 2 walkmans, as long as it sounds good. Its the end result what counts.
Its not the ingredients of a cake, its how the cake taste.
Dj Fl@me
Its not the ingredients of a cake, its how the cake taste.
Dj Fl@me
Posted Thu 28 Jul 05 @ 6:53 pm
internodal
I guess the debate really is about actual skills, not about the art of DJ'ing itself.
Here's an example:
For about 10 years, I've mixed house and techno in my friends' basement, using a cheap Pyramid mixer and 2 different brands of cheap turntables.
In those days, it took practice, good ears, sense of rythm, and more practice.
But most of all, it took passion and devotion.
In that sense, I can easily understand why die-hard vinyl enthusiasts are cursing at digital technology, because it makes mixing look so darn easy. It seems like newbies in the DJ business don't need an ounce of talent to put two beats in synch. And this is true, to some extent...
However, not everyone can be a DJ, even if the computer can mix two tracks at the push of a button. A good DJ still needs to adapt his style to each crowd he's facing. He has to read his crowd and try to find the right type of music quickly. And then, he has to make the dance floor groove as long as possible. And reajust if necessary. As a DJ, one should always remember that pleasing the crowd is all that matters.
So, with this said, even a top-notch beat matcher, who can scratch like a mad man, will only do a fair job at best, if all he knows about music is techno, and has to please a rock or hip-hop crowd.
Bottom line, a good DJ needs a good knowledge of music, first and foremost. He has to feel the crowd and respond to it. The ability to mix well is really the next step, according to me. For example, I started off as a DJ with CD's and cassettes. In that time, I've had some success, especially after the first 2 to 3 years. I only started to practice beat-matching a few years after that. But in the meantime, I continued to perform with CD's and cassettes, without beat-matching. I've only done big night-club gigs for the past 4 years, which allowed me to show off my mixing skills using different software and CD controllers. However, had it not been for my past experience with cassettes and CD's, I never could have pulled it off the way I did... I probably would have choked after the fourth song.
In conclusion, I'd say: Good DJ'ing = Knowledge + Experience + Actual skills
Internodal.
Here's an example:
For about 10 years, I've mixed house and techno in my friends' basement, using a cheap Pyramid mixer and 2 different brands of cheap turntables.
In those days, it took practice, good ears, sense of rythm, and more practice.
But most of all, it took passion and devotion.
In that sense, I can easily understand why die-hard vinyl enthusiasts are cursing at digital technology, because it makes mixing look so darn easy. It seems like newbies in the DJ business don't need an ounce of talent to put two beats in synch. And this is true, to some extent...
However, not everyone can be a DJ, even if the computer can mix two tracks at the push of a button. A good DJ still needs to adapt his style to each crowd he's facing. He has to read his crowd and try to find the right type of music quickly. And then, he has to make the dance floor groove as long as possible. And reajust if necessary. As a DJ, one should always remember that pleasing the crowd is all that matters.
So, with this said, even a top-notch beat matcher, who can scratch like a mad man, will only do a fair job at best, if all he knows about music is techno, and has to please a rock or hip-hop crowd.
Bottom line, a good DJ needs a good knowledge of music, first and foremost. He has to feel the crowd and respond to it. The ability to mix well is really the next step, according to me. For example, I started off as a DJ with CD's and cassettes. In that time, I've had some success, especially after the first 2 to 3 years. I only started to practice beat-matching a few years after that. But in the meantime, I continued to perform with CD's and cassettes, without beat-matching. I've only done big night-club gigs for the past 4 years, which allowed me to show off my mixing skills using different software and CD controllers. However, had it not been for my past experience with cassettes and CD's, I never could have pulled it off the way I did... I probably would have choked after the fourth song.
In conclusion, I'd say: Good DJ'ing = Knowledge + Experience + Actual skills
Internodal.
Posted Fri 29 Jul 05 @ 11:29 pm
bagpuss
What people seem to be missing is the intermediate value, like everything in life, people use extreme examples.., I did witness an extreme example tonight actually, a guy at the bar was useing a desktop PC, with atomixmp3, he was sitting down, with hi-fi headphones round his deck, and useing the mouse to control the software mixer/crossfader, not only did he look like a monkey, the mixes were terrible, off beat, the lot.., but on the otherside is some of the worlds best DJ talent, turning to CD decks, Laptops and all.., so it's not Digital verse analouge DJ'ing.., theirs more to it, because of the nature of digital DJ'ing, and the vast amount of options, that all require different skill levels..
My personal opinion overall, would be this.., the most important thing is the music being played in the venue and whether it's appropiate for the audience, volume is also important, not too quite, not too loud, so you can hold a conversation still.., then I want to hear good, and interesting transitions/mixes.., nothing off beat, or sour mixes (bad key match) etc.., finally, It doesn't matter to me how the DJ achieves that level, because it isn't easy by any means of now...
But what is also important, is that the DJ looks to be working, and that the DJ is standing, useing a mixer, and ultimately a decent controller.., that to me is as much a DJ as anyone else.., and if his mixes are flawless and harmonic, live remixing and the works.., that guy has skill and ears!!, equally so if he uses VDJ.., a solution that does allow a DJ to sit down and mix like carl Cox with his eyes shut, then theirs a problem..
But at present, their a lots of DJ's, useing various set-ups.., most i've seen are no good.., so an excellent DJ useing VDJ (the way I said), CD decks, vinyl or whatever.., is very welcome to me..
Bagpuss.
My personal opinion overall, would be this.., the most important thing is the music being played in the venue and whether it's appropiate for the audience, volume is also important, not too quite, not too loud, so you can hold a conversation still.., then I want to hear good, and interesting transitions/mixes.., nothing off beat, or sour mixes (bad key match) etc.., finally, It doesn't matter to me how the DJ achieves that level, because it isn't easy by any means of now...
But what is also important, is that the DJ looks to be working, and that the DJ is standing, useing a mixer, and ultimately a decent controller.., that to me is as much a DJ as anyone else.., and if his mixes are flawless and harmonic, live remixing and the works.., that guy has skill and ears!!, equally so if he uses VDJ.., a solution that does allow a DJ to sit down and mix like carl Cox with his eyes shut, then theirs a problem..
But at present, their a lots of DJ's, useing various set-ups.., most i've seen are no good.., so an excellent DJ useing VDJ (the way I said), CD decks, vinyl or whatever.., is very welcome to me..
Bagpuss.
Posted Sat 30 Jul 05 @ 1:44 am
djaditya
Ive been DJing at parties in my town and everyone feels that i rock! Thats great... but when it comes to some people, when they throw a party, they want a dj, and they call me up, and ask me if i know some one who is a "REAL" DJ.... and then i get kind of pissed and say, im a real DJ too...you can touch me if u want! But they say."Dude, you mix with your comp, i need someone witha t turntable...." blah blah... but the real Sh*t is that they do not even know what a turntable is and how djing is done...they just want that Status...That Self-imagined "turntable DJs are real" kinda point of view....well, its they who gonna miss out on me...i can always dj in my basement with my buddies!!!
Anyways, just a question...how do Tiesto, Oakie, VanDyke, etc create those tracks man??? They use synths right? or do they use somethin else?
I saw this video of Tiesto in a live mix and found him playing with vinyls, and tts....but i was wondering why? Cos i thought they use synths.... I'm confused.... But Tiesto is one helluva DJ!
Anyways, just a question...how do Tiesto, Oakie, VanDyke, etc create those tracks man??? They use synths right? or do they use somethin else?
I saw this video of Tiesto in a live mix and found him playing with vinyls, and tts....but i was wondering why? Cos i thought they use synths.... I'm confused.... But Tiesto is one helluva DJ!
Posted Sat 30 Jul 05 @ 9:23 am
antileon
Tiesto is making his songs back in his studio using lots and lots of hardware + a computer.
Then he is simply mixing them on TT's just as the other DJ. He is also making and playing a lot of remixes from other artists. Why he is "the number 1" in the world, I can't understand.
www.trance.nu is 1 good source in producing your own electronic music. A midi keyboard is essential in creating digital music with a computer.
Then he is simply mixing them on TT's just as the other DJ. He is also making and playing a lot of remixes from other artists. Why he is "the number 1" in the world, I can't understand.
www.trance.nu is 1 good source in producing your own electronic music. A midi keyboard is essential in creating digital music with a computer.
Posted Sat 30 Jul 05 @ 10:56 am
bagpuss
I believe VDJ makes you more of a DJ than one that uses TT's!!, perhaps hard to believe, but it for me it's true.
You have alot more contol, and alot more information displayed, you have a balance between live mix and the ability to see ahead of time, blah blah blah.., you know the rest.., but with TT's your just a basic DJ, with VDJ your in an alot more 'God' like position.., in that you have information and knowledge, that no other has..
Like I said before, get all the controls, mixer, and all the nice tools, maybe even TCV's, disable the waveform if you feel it'd give you more respect, let your friends watch you, strive to amaze them, if they give you some negative comments (a Bi product of their envie), simply step aside, and force them with your body language to take control and perform a mix, they would be completely overwhelmed with the display and controls, and by the time their finished, they would probably of preffered it, that they were trying TT's..
Bagpuss.
You have alot more contol, and alot more information displayed, you have a balance between live mix and the ability to see ahead of time, blah blah blah.., you know the rest.., but with TT's your just a basic DJ, with VDJ your in an alot more 'God' like position.., in that you have information and knowledge, that no other has..
Like I said before, get all the controls, mixer, and all the nice tools, maybe even TCV's, disable the waveform if you feel it'd give you more respect, let your friends watch you, strive to amaze them, if they give you some negative comments (a Bi product of their envie), simply step aside, and force them with your body language to take control and perform a mix, they would be completely overwhelmed with the display and controls, and by the time their finished, they would probably of preffered it, that they were trying TT's..
Bagpuss.
Posted Sat 30 Jul 05 @ 11:39 am
djaditya
Truth...
Posted Mon 01 Aug 05 @ 7:35 am
DJ Cyder
The true beauty of VDJ is the fact it can be as manual or as automated as you choose it to be. One user once liked it to photoshop for photos. Yes some dj's are set in their ways others choose to let software do all the work while they "entertain" Whatever you choose its ultimately up to you. Never-the-less don't let others influnce your decisions perceptions will change in due time.
Posted Mon 01 Aug 05 @ 8:05 am
Man-Tk
dj flame :
"u can even play with 2 walkmans" are you serious ???
it is very important as it's seen too .
"u can even play with 2 walkmans" are you serious ???
it is very important as it's seen too .
Posted Mon 01 Aug 05 @ 5:41 pm
bagpuss
Man-TK, I don't think that two walkmans is a DJ option either, but you saw my post above, their is no need for this to be a completely material proffesion, and the current example of Turntables and CD decks doesn't take away from the greatness of computer based DJ'ing, it is only on the increase, and peoples mentalitys will change.., and I see nothing wrong with the computer image, providing it is within reasonable boundries, and not just a keyboard and mouse set-up as you said..
Posted Mon 01 Aug 05 @ 6:14 pm
