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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: WHERE IS THE LOYALTY NU-MARK ? - Page: 4

This topic is old and might contain outdated or incorrect information.

OKay, I didn't take the time to read through ever single post in the last 4 pages, but here goes:

No one said anything about a lack of confidence by Numark when they released the Numark Total Control with Cue LE AND Tracktor LE, with face plates for BOTH.

No one has voiced concerns about Numark having a lack of confidence in Cue because they also sell Mixmeister Fusion.

So now that they also have a partnership with Serato, effectively adding just "one" more to the list, people are going nuts and screaming that Numark is going to dump Cue/VDJ, and that they no longer have confidence in Cue/VDJ? Why?

If Numark truly had decided that they no longer had confidence in Cue/VDJ, why would they be selling it as an option for their new products, namely the NS7? If they no longer had any confidence in Cue/VDJ, while they probably wouldn't ditch ongoing products, they certainly wouldn't bother with promoting it with their newest and likely most expensive product, the NS7! Given that they are promoting with the most volume the combination of ITCH with the NS7, that is because the Serato/Numark partnership is brand spanking new, and they want to make sure everyone knows about it.

However, they are still listing that the NS7 will work with Cue as well, and I believe I read that it will ship with Cue LE among others as well. If Numark did not think that Cue was a reliable product, they sure as hell wouldn't want people even thinking about running Cue on this new product, and "tainting" their opinion of the NS7, because of Cue/VDJ instabilities.

No, quite the opposite. Numark, I am sure, is quite confident in Cue/VDJ, they are simply selling to a wider market.

The NS7 can't be cheap to manufacture, and will likely have a high sticker price as far as a midi controller to date. It may have slow sales to start... so how do you help overcome that? Make it compatible with the most popular programs, and Serato has got a huge following. Also, considering the high standards that Serato has been known for, that partnership will help boost the reputation of the NS7 (in theory), because if Serato developers trust the NS7...

It's about selling to a wider audience, and who are we to say that's a bad thing? Since when did we NOT want a choice? How would you feel if you finally found the controller of your dreams, but it was only compatible with software you really didn't like?

Numark's decision is about freedom of choice, and about selling to a larger market, and NOTHING else.

The only thing I hope, is that the NS7 is as good as it looks to me, and that I can somehow afford it....LOL... which I'm afraid I probably won't be able to... LOL.
 

amen to that brother
 

...and just so everyone is clear, I personally don't have an itch for ITCH... my choice is, and would be Cue/VDJ, but I'm glad I would have that choice, and while I'm not interested in ITCH, I do think it is most likely a good piece of software, and I know that Tracktor is a good piece of software, and there are other reasonably and good solutions out there. Thank the powers above that there is variety, and we can choose what fits our mixing styles best.... and thank the powers above that there is competition, to keep the various softwares kicking along and getting better!
 

amen :D
 

@ sleeperawaken

Itch will compete for the same market as Cue. Therefore, your comment that “they are simply selling to a wider market” is questionable. SSL users will not switch to Itch (read their forum) nor will potential SSL customers purchase Itch, so where is this “wider market?” There is no wider market; instead, Itch will compete for potential Cue customers. Moreover, since Cue is a Numark product, why would it include additional software that would compete with Cue? Every customer that purchases the full version of Itch will affect the amount of money that Numark could have received for Cue sells. This directly affects the amount of money that Atomix receives for Cue sells. Furthermore, it appears that Itch is strictly a Serato product. If this is true, Numark doesn’t receive any money for Itch. Consequently, Numark is ultimately diminishing its own gross revenue—it doesn’t make “cents” (money).

OO

Btw, the more money Atomix makes, the better VDJ can become....
 

They have been packaging Tracktor with Cue on the Numark Total Control and the DMC2 since the beginning. Why didn't you have a screaming temper tantrum then?

Of course there are going to be SSL users that will make the switch. Anyone who does not know that is wearing blinders. The Serato users that are very much into the feel of vinyl and using 1200s? No, I don't think they will be switching, but there are also a lot of SSL users using Serato with CDJ's. I've even seen people using Serato with time coded CD's and a high end rack mounted dual CD deck! There are a lot more of this style of Serato user than you would guess (apparently).... if there wasn't, Serato wouldn't have wasted their time creating ITCH. To those users, Serato ITCH and a direct midi controller will give them more direct control then CDJ/dual deck, and less time on the laptop.

Again, I'd like to know why you completely ignore the fact that Tracktor has been packaged right along with Cue right from the start, with the Total Control and the DMC2? And why you ignore that Numark also sells Mixmeister Fusion, which many DJ's also use live on the road? Why no big fit over that?

Oh, you don't think Numark will make a dime off from ITCH, if it is packaged with the NS7? You've got to be kidding me. Numark isn't doing charity work, they are in the business to make money. What are you so insecure about anyway? Don't you think Cue can hold it's own? If Cue/VDJ is a good product, people will choose it. Good products do not come from removing all other options. Just look at Windows, a perfect example, but don't get me started on that.

Serato ITCH is going to appeal to people who like SSL, but don't want to haul around Vinyl & tables. Serato ITCH is not going to pull very many users from the VDJ/Cue or even Tracktor crowd. Don't believe me? Anyone here planning to switch to Serato ITCH? NO? Me neither.

Again, why no fit over Numark packaging Tracktor with NTC and the DMC2?

Lastly, if you want to stop buying products from Numark, because Numark now has a relationship with Serato as well, go ahead. If you want to exclude yourself from what looks to be a great product like the NS7, simply because it is also compatible with ITCH, go ahead. I guess you won't be able to get the new VCI-300 either, or the new Stanton Gear, as the Stanton SCS dared to not even have VDJ listed yet as even compatible. The best you might be able to do, is go to the new Hercules RMX, I guess, or do the DMC2 if you don't already have one. Go picket infront of their doors if you like.

 

sleeperawaken wrote :
They have been packaging Tracktor with Cue on the Numark Total Control and the DMC2 since the beginning. Why didn't you have a screaming temper tantrum then?

Again, I'd like to know why you completely ignore the fact that Tracktor has been packaged right along with Cue right from the start, with the Total Control and the DMC2? And why you ignore that Numark also sells Mixmeister Fusion, which many DJ's also use live on the road? Why no big fit over that?


First of all, you’ve admit that you haven’t read every post in this thread so you are assuming that a “temper tantrum” has been made when all that’s been done is an expression of opinions—let’s keep it that way. I've mentioned the inclusion of Traktor with the Total Controller in another thread:

Double O wrote :
[The Numark Total Control] comes with CUE LE (a.k.a VDJ) and Traktor LE “with premapped controls and overlay 'skins' for both applications.” Why Numark would include a competitor’s software with its own hardware and licensed version of VDJ is mystifying.


I hope that answers your question.

sleeperawaken wrote :
Of course there are going to be SSL users that will make the switch. Anyone who does not know that is wearing blinders.


You obviously haven’t seen the numerous Itch bashing post located in the SSL forum.

dj-in-norway wrote :

The Serato users are LESS happy than some of you about the Numark and Itch thing ;)

From Serato forums :


"serato just took its name, dragged it in the mud, spit on it and then shit on it."

"I just threw up in my mouth. Unbelievable, Auto beat matching. I think our business just shit on itself."

" ITCH (Bitch it should be called)"

"Financially I can see the reasons they're doing this... but it does leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth."


"really surprised that Serato would be jumping into this with the likes of Numark and Vestax. When you lie down with dogs...enough said."

"what does worry me though is this new Numark partnering... is there still a Rane influence on the Serato or is the relationship going a little sour?"

" I am disappointed that Serato would stab us real DJs in the back with this crap, microwave-friendly product called ITCH"

"this is the 1st step downhill"



There are so many negative Itch posts by SSL users that you would need another forum to quote them all, which Serato provided them with.

sleeperawaken wrote :
I've even seen people using Serato with time coded CD's and a high end rack mounted dual CD deck! There are a lot more of this style of Serato user than you would guess (apparently).... if there wasn't, Serato wouldn't have wasted their time creating ITCH. To those users, Serato ITCH and a direct midi controller will give them more direct control then CDJ/dual deck, and less time on the laptop.


All SSL users that I have seen use either turntables or tabletop CD players and their own choice of high-end mixers. Do you seriously think that they are going to spend additional money on a Numark product that includes a built in mixer? Furthermore, they are very selective in the turntables and CD players they use—usually high-end models that they don’t associate the name Numark with.

In conclusion, I respect your opinions, and thank you for sharing them with us.

OO
 

This is just my opinion do with it as you will. I have been a long time user/supporter of Numark, and after reading the brochures on the SL7 and Itch it is apparent to me it is designed to compete with VDJ, and its various controllers, and still give the SSL purists the vinyl emulation they seem to crave. I cannot blame any business in its efforts to make a profit, that is the name of the game. However, this heated debate about SSL/Numark/VDJ is a waste of time and energy. Things are going to happen as they (these companies) intend them to. So lets dial it down a notch and keep an open mind over this and watch how it pans out, shall we?

Peace.....Terry
 

Well it certainly has caused an uproar, we can all agree on that.

I am more from the side of "who cares" honestly, it means nothing more than new options for djs.
How many of you are going to ditch what you have now and run out to buy one?
Hell, nobody even knows what the price is going to be yet, that is a pretty huge factor imo.

Nobody is ever going to pry SSL from its users cold dead hands that is for sure.
Imo, we have spent way too much time trying to make them switch that could have been spent on other things.

The SSL forum is comical to say the least, and that just confirms what I posted about prying SSL out of their cold dead hands.
If Serato gets bashed that openly in their own camp for swinging towards "wavies", how much of a chance does Numark or Atomix stand in getting them to switch.
As much hard core slashing and bitch slapping that goes on over there, there is a hidden group that uses other software to do non club gigs.
Those users are right here in our forum too as well as others, but remain anonymous for their own sake because of what happens in the ssl forum.
This joint effort by Numark to create something with Serato is only to give Serato options for users who they are losing to Atomix and others with the gain to Numark being to sell more plastic hardware components. Numark doesn't care what software you chose. All they want is for you to buy their hardware.
Imo, it was a smart but ballsy move on Serato's part, but necessary to capture the market they were losing as it slipped through their fingers.
One exception is the name, that was pretty dumb imo, they've been getting cut up from day one on that.

We stand a better chance of switching a Muslim to Christianity, and nobody had better take that comment to task on me as its not a religious statement but a analogy to how firmly SSL users are set in their ways.

Numark is a hardware manufacturer period, if they wanted to develop software they would have done it themselves.
I don't think they give a damn about software if it doesn't support hardware they can build and sell, excluding Mixmeister for now that is, and there is nothing new about that.

It's nothing more, and nothing less and has nothing at all to do with loyalty towards Atomix.
 

This is just a Classic Case of Capitalism.

My guess is Rane finally realised there was a growing market segment for Casual-intermediate DJ's in which SSL and the things required to get it up and running (external mixer, CDJ's, TT's, etc) are too expensive and too much for the average user.
I personally would not have been able to get into DJing without Virtual DJ, or a good software-only program which I could download and play around with for free at first.
I think the average consumer is more informed now and likes to play around with things before they settle for something.

I think Virtual DJ got a great foot in the door with this new Digitally-Oriented Consumer. Serato is Old-School and as you see mostly appeals to "real" DJ's who know how to beatmatch with actual Vinyl and who have been spinning 10+ years.
And coincidentally, I am willing to bet that the above quotes from SSL users are from those who have been around the block in the Vinyl Realm for years and who feel betrayed by a company whom they thought would always be a "real" DJ company, baloney.
These people need to wake the F@#K up and realize that their is no real loyalty in a capitalistic society...it is all about the money.
Rane simply saw market share it was losing out on, and I think wisely jumped in.

I think the coolest thing about this, is that complain as they might, I am sure a lot of hardcore SSL users will buy this new product from Numark that comes bundled with both VDJ and ITCH, and they can actually use VDJ and see what a bad-ass program it is.
I'm all for it. I think VDJ is disrespected too much in the "real" DJ world.
It needs more respect...it's a totally awesome program and with Timecoded Vinyls it puts serato to shame.

Long live VDJ!
 

Well Said jterlaakpoot !!
 

jterlaakpoot wrote :
Rane simply saw market share it was losing out on, and I think wisely jumped in.


I think it's important to point out that what you really mean is Serato and not Rane.
They are two different companies and Rane gets absolutely no piece of the NS7 "pie". You might see Rane making separate hardware for ITCH in the future, but so far it's a cooperation between Serato and Numark. (Worth to mention is that Serato and Vestax have the same agreement, hence the VCI-300)
Other than that, good post ;)
 

TearEmUp wrote :
This heated debate about SSL/Numark/VDJ is a waste of time and energy.


This is only a general discussion that we are having in the GENERAL DISCUSSION forum, so it’s not “a waste of time and energy.” Consequently, all the posted opinions in this thread are appreciated.

TearEmUp wrote :
I have been a long time user/supporter of Numark, and after reading the brochures on the SL7 and Itch it is apparent to me it is designed to compete with VDJ, and its various controllers, and still give the SSL purists the vinyl emulation they seem to crave. I cannot blame any business in its efforts to make a profit, that is the name of the game.


I agree with your assumption that Itch was designed to compete with VDJ. Also, I don’t blame Numark either—the game of business is to make money. Consequently, VDJ needs to step up its game and find another hardware partner.

mp3jrick wrote :
This joint effort by Numark to create something with Serato is only to give Serato options for users who they are losing to Atomix and others with the gain to Numark being to sell more plastic hardware components. Numark doesn't care what software you chose. All they want is for you to buy their hardware.
Imo, it was a smart but ballsy move on Serato's part, but necessary to capture the market they were losing as it slipped through their fingers.
One exception is the name, that was pretty dumb imo, they've been getting cut up from day one on that.


True.... It’s obvious that Itch was designed to compete in Atomix's market. I don't know about "smart," but the partnership was a “ballsy move.” I hope Atomix has the "smarts" and “balls” to make a move as well.


@ jterlaakpoot

Overall, your post sums up what it’s all about. However...

jterlaakpoot wrote :
I think VDJ is disrespected too much in the "real" DJ world.
It needs more respect...


I think VDJ would get more respect in the “real DJ world” if it had a “real hardware partner.”

OO

 

Double O wrote :
I think VDJ would get more respect in the “real DJ world” if it had a “real hardware partner.”


But that goes against everything that VDJ has stood for to date......to be compatible with everyones needs. Not limit themselves and create another SSL/Rane group that is close minded.
 

TearEmUp wrote :
Double O wrote :
I think VDJ would get more respect in the “real DJ world” if it had a “real hardware partner.”


But that goes against everything that VDJ has stood for to date......to be compatible with everyones needs. Not limit themselves and create another SSL/Rane group that is close minded.


You might be right TearEmUp, but it’s time for Atomix to become more aggressive. VDJ can be that all purpose DJ program. However, Atomix needs to consider putting out another program strictly designed for a high-end controller. Denon would be my first choice. PCDJ has a lock on the HC4500, which I don't consider a high-end controller. Maybe Atomix can negotiate a deal with Denon to provide software for its future controllers because PCDJ has been struggling almost a year to get Reflex on the market. Another company could be Technics. I'm sure Technics will eventually get into the controller game. Atomix should approach Technics with a proposal—that’s being aggressive. Maybe Atomix could come out with a new DJ program calledVT1200s.

OO
 



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