DJ Cyder
If you are using or plan on using Time Coded Vinyl please have a look here first.
Control Records
VDJ Produced Generations technical specifications
Gen-1 (discontinued)
Weight 125-130g
Recorded DB level +4db avg
Produced in Paris, France
Gen-2 US&Canada (discontinued)
Weight 140-150g
Recorded DB level -4 DB
Produced in the US
Gen-3 Worldwide
Weight 120-125g
Recorded DB level 0 db
Produced in the Us and UK
Currently shipping worldwide
Needle Tech as applied to TCV
No matter what DJ software you use, there is one thing that all vinyl-emulation systems all rely on are needles. Needles are usually one of the last things on your mind. Fidelity and specs are sometimes thought to be a trivial factor in the performance of the software.
A common thought is “As long as you have a good strong signal, then it does not matter what needle you use.” Although that is partially true, any regular user of multiple DJ carts will tell you that they all seem to feel or respond differently. What exactly makes one DJ cartridge better than the other? And how can we get good performance out of the needles we already have?
All control records contain a constant tone that transmits position and speed information to the computer. This tone usually sits between 1 and 2 kHz (midrange). As you speed the record up or down, either by adjusting the pitch or manually moving the record or platter, the tone is lowered or raised, and the computer interpolates those changes. The tone is right smack in the middle of the frequency range, and just about any needle is going to be able to pick it up during normal playback.
When you slow down, scratch or speed up the record (backspins), however, the frequency range that the needle must pick up gets significantly wider. So although most needles are equal under normal playback scenarios, DJs who perform a lot of record manipulation may benefit from needles with a better frequency response, specifically a needle that handles the lower frequencies better, because that's where most of the movement information ends up.
It's almost impossible to move the record fast enough to produce a tone above 16 kHz, so needles boasting higher frequency responses probably won't do you much good. One important feature of a DJ cartridge that will affect its frequency range is the type of diamond used on the needle itself.
There are two kinds of diamond tips on DJ needles, and some models are made with both of those options, elliptical and spherical. Most are marked with an E or S at the end of the model name.
Spherical needles are more rounded and sit higher in the record groove, so they don't pick up the higher frequencies that sit on the bottom.
Elliptical needles sit lower in the groove, but because of their shape, they will rub against the walls of the groove and wear out the records and needles more rapidly, especially if your turn tables are not setup correctly. You won't notice that as quickly with standard records, but when using control records, performance will quickly degrade. Best bet is to stick to spherical needles for cost and wear reasons.
The louder and stronger the tone, the more clearly it will be read by the computer.
When you go live some other things will come into play such as background noise and rumble, after all the vibrating of the styli is how it all works in the first place. You may be able to turn up the gains, but then you are raising the level of the control signal and outside noise together. Its much better to start off with a strong signal in the first place.
Reduce rumble by isolating (floats) the turntables or turning down your monitors. Clean your control vinyl before every gig. Remove lint and dust from the records and the needle with a proper brush, not your hands! Dust builds up rapidly and can mess with the control signal itself, so make a habit of cleaning every few songs. Align and adjust the cartridge according to the turntable's specifications. (acw dj's blog contains a guide how to do this) so that you get the best signal possible. Don't over weigh or turn in the carts at extreme angles. The contacts between the tone arm and the needle cartridge are a common problem area. Re-seating the cartridge will help fix contact problems, use an eraser to clean the contacts on both the turntable and the cartridge. The common No. 2 pencil will work fine.
Get yourself a good, loud cartridge on which you can afford to replace the needles. You might be better off buying new control records more frequently than spending the extra money on high-priced cartridges.
Control Records
VDJ Produced Generations technical specifications
Gen-1 (discontinued)
Weight 125-130g
Recorded DB level +4db avg
Produced in Paris, France
Gen-2 US&Canada (discontinued)
Weight 140-150g
Recorded DB level -4 DB
Produced in the US
Gen-3 Worldwide
Weight 120-125g
Recorded DB level 0 db
Produced in the Us and UK
Currently shipping worldwide
Needle Tech as applied to TCV
No matter what DJ software you use, there is one thing that all vinyl-emulation systems all rely on are needles. Needles are usually one of the last things on your mind. Fidelity and specs are sometimes thought to be a trivial factor in the performance of the software.
A common thought is “As long as you have a good strong signal, then it does not matter what needle you use.” Although that is partially true, any regular user of multiple DJ carts will tell you that they all seem to feel or respond differently. What exactly makes one DJ cartridge better than the other? And how can we get good performance out of the needles we already have?
All control records contain a constant tone that transmits position and speed information to the computer. This tone usually sits between 1 and 2 kHz (midrange). As you speed the record up or down, either by adjusting the pitch or manually moving the record or platter, the tone is lowered or raised, and the computer interpolates those changes. The tone is right smack in the middle of the frequency range, and just about any needle is going to be able to pick it up during normal playback.
When you slow down, scratch or speed up the record (backspins), however, the frequency range that the needle must pick up gets significantly wider. So although most needles are equal under normal playback scenarios, DJs who perform a lot of record manipulation may benefit from needles with a better frequency response, specifically a needle that handles the lower frequencies better, because that's where most of the movement information ends up.
It's almost impossible to move the record fast enough to produce a tone above 16 kHz, so needles boasting higher frequency responses probably won't do you much good. One important feature of a DJ cartridge that will affect its frequency range is the type of diamond used on the needle itself.
There are two kinds of diamond tips on DJ needles, and some models are made with both of those options, elliptical and spherical. Most are marked with an E or S at the end of the model name.
Spherical needles are more rounded and sit higher in the record groove, so they don't pick up the higher frequencies that sit on the bottom.
Elliptical needles sit lower in the groove, but because of their shape, they will rub against the walls of the groove and wear out the records and needles more rapidly, especially if your turn tables are not setup correctly. You won't notice that as quickly with standard records, but when using control records, performance will quickly degrade. Best bet is to stick to spherical needles for cost and wear reasons.
The louder and stronger the tone, the more clearly it will be read by the computer.
When you go live some other things will come into play such as background noise and rumble, after all the vibrating of the styli is how it all works in the first place. You may be able to turn up the gains, but then you are raising the level of the control signal and outside noise together. Its much better to start off with a strong signal in the first place.
Reduce rumble by isolating (floats) the turntables or turning down your monitors. Clean your control vinyl before every gig. Remove lint and dust from the records and the needle with a proper brush, not your hands! Dust builds up rapidly and can mess with the control signal itself, so make a habit of cleaning every few songs. Align and adjust the cartridge according to the turntable's specifications. (acw dj's blog contains a guide how to do this) so that you get the best signal possible. Don't over weigh or turn in the carts at extreme angles. The contacts between the tone arm and the needle cartridge are a common problem area. Re-seating the cartridge will help fix contact problems, use an eraser to clean the contacts on both the turntable and the cartridge. The common No. 2 pencil will work fine.
Get yourself a good, loud cartridge on which you can afford to replace the needles. You might be better off buying new control records more frequently than spending the extra money on high-priced cartridges.
Posted Thu 15 Mar 07 @ 5:33 pm
pdnmusic
really good & detailed report!
thanks!
thanks!
Posted Thu 15 Mar 07 @ 5:36 pm
ConQuest
Yes, thanks!
Posted Thu 15 Mar 07 @ 6:15 pm
djirsch
Hi,
could it be possible to post all the tested cardrige/needle for the different application (Scratch, backspin etc)? I just got my TCV Gen 3, I was thinking that I would be able to perform backspin with them, but using my Stanton DiscMaster 2 on an SL-1200 MK2, my needle still skate as on TCV Gen 2. Not sure if it is better as on Gen 2, but my needle is still skating with backspin and scratch.
I guess some better needle allow heavy scratching and backspin on TCV gen3 right?
Thanks
could it be possible to post all the tested cardrige/needle for the different application (Scratch, backspin etc)? I just got my TCV Gen 3, I was thinking that I would be able to perform backspin with them, but using my Stanton DiscMaster 2 on an SL-1200 MK2, my needle still skate as on TCV Gen 2. Not sure if it is better as on Gen 2, but my needle is still skating with backspin and scratch.
I guess some better needle allow heavy scratching and backspin on TCV gen3 right?
Thanks
Posted Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 2:15 am
Manquín
Ortofon for scraching are good enough.
Posted Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 2:45 am
listen2
The major difference between gen2 and gen3 is the fact that gen2 are thicker and were more prone to curving slightly making it move better on one side and perform fantastic backspins. Gen3 are a little thinner and do not have that curve that most thicker vinyl can have so you have to depend on tracking and good splimats.
Posted Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 5:05 am
DJ FORMAT
really good & detailed Guide! DJ Cyder YOU ARE THE MAN M8.
Posted Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 5:11 am
DJ Cyder
But wait there's more...
You just spent your last paycheck on a new pair of cartridges and some new VDJ gen-3 tcv's. You then throw them on and they jump and skip all over. What's wrong? Well either you've been completely ripped off or you've set up your tonearm badly. Remember, setting up your tonearm is a personal thing no two dj's will ever agree on one good setup. I've seen lots of different set-ups and they all seemed to work fine. The best way is to learn what it is you're actually doing when setting up, so that you can adjust certain factors if necessary in other situations.
Cartridge install
If you've bought an all-in-one cartridge (concorde, trackmaster, groovemaster, discmaster etc.) then you don't need to worry, just slam it straight into the tonearm. A quick clean of the contacts with a no.2 pencel eraser on the tone arm contacts is a good idea, especially if your turntable is older. Never lick the contacts, I don't know where this started but if you are licking the contacts to make a good connection, you've got bigger problems, and you should be looking in to replacement parts for your turntable and not buying new needles.
If you've bought a headshell mounting cartridge the process is a little more involved. Be careful when attaching the 4 headshell wires into the cartridge terminals. Be patient and use tweezers if necessary to open the clasp slightly so it slides on the terminals more easily. Additional weights are totally up to you. Some carts will come with them.
Contrary to popular belief you don't just put them on to stop your needle skipping, they're really there to make sure you CAN reach the desired tracking force. Obviously the more headshell weight you put on the higher stylus pressure you can get, but there's only so much weight you actually Need. You can balance any weight you put on the cartridge end with the counter weight at the back of the tonearm (this is not done by putting the weight on backwords), so it might be worthwhile you putting it as it saves you taping weight on the headshell later on.
Where should I position the cartridge in the headshell?
For best sound quality it's recommended that you line the stylus tip up a few mm from the front of the headshell, But many dj's slide the cartridge as far forward as it will go. This will have the effect of slightly increasing the tracking force applied. (not really the best thing to do for obvious reasons)
Tonearm height adjustment
The height adjustment, was intended for different heights of cartridge. But the values in the Technics manual are based on the idea that you would be using the big ugly rubber mats supplied with the decks and not slipmats. Therefore assuming that your slipmats are around 2mm thick, the height ring should stay at 0 unless your cartridge height is above 19mm. For heights above this put the height ring at the corresponding value. e.g. Your cartridge is 21mm high, put your height ring at 2.
In theroy the higher the tonearm, the more downward force should be applied. This is why many scratch dj's put the height ring at maximum. But, I found that doing this made absolutely no perceiveable difference whatsoever. So, the choice is yours. Just remember to lock the section in place once you've finished! Also having the tonearm height set artificially high can cause the stylus to sit at the wrong angle in the groove, cause bad performance (ie these vinyls suck)
Balance weight /anti-skate settings
Wonder why the gen-3 vinyls have a large run out groove, this is why.
With the needle in the run out section (shinny area with no groves, set your anti-skate to 0. Adjust the balance weight (at the back of the tonearm) until you get the tonearm to balance horizontally. It can be a bit tricky, but be careful and more importantly patient (i know you are a dj patience isn't one of your strong points). You should be able to get the stylus to hover a few mm above the surface. Your tonearm should now be hovering, quite naturally, about half-way through the record. Now carefully, and slowly, increase the anti-skating value. The tonearm starts to move back towards the rest position, it must be magic. This demonstrates what anti-skate is there for. It's a means of offsetting the push towards the centre spindle caused by the weight on the cartridge acting unevenly on the s-shaped tonearm.
With the tonearm hovering, move it back to it's rest position and secure it. On the counter weight at the back of the tonearm, there should be a calibration ring facing towards you. If it isn't then you've put the weight on backwards. This is the stylus pressure ring. Now without moving the actual balance weight, swivel this little ring until the 0 lines up with the central groove on your tonearm.This is like a reference point. And it is where the tonearm is said to be horizontally zero balanced. Basically, at this point the cartridge end is balanced and so there is in effect no push on it downwards. By winding the balance weight forward you can now add the stylus pressure.
back to the anti-skate. If you've got a shiny sided record with no grooves, or just use the lead out on the gen-3's and get your deck spinning. Remember when you had your 0 weight point?
The tonearm naturally hovered in the middle of the record. Now screw your balance weight forward to give a stylus pressure of 1. Put the needle down on the shiny record near the start, and it'll zip across the surface, so make sure it doesn't hit the label in the centre. But why doesn't it stay in the middle? Because now you have added stylus pressure, there is a push down on the cartridge now. Because of this there is a force pushing inwards.
The more weight you screw on, the greater the force will be. With your stylus pressure still at 1, set your anti-skate to 1. Now when you put the needle down it should stop somewhere near the middle and not move. This is because the anti-skate has offset the push towards the centre. Now by increasing and decreasing the anti-skate you should be able to get the needle to skate backwards and forwards past the middle point (hours of fun).
So the principle is that by using the anti-skate correctly you have the best average position of the needle. Now you've got an idea of what anti-skate does, you'll probably notice that the anti-skate dial only goes to 3. But what if your stylus pressure is above 3? Well, tough. You just have to leave it at 3 (Some new decks have anti-skate dials that go upto 7).
How much stylus pressure do I need? It depends on the cartridge you are using and what style of mixing you're into. Remember the higher the stylus pressure, the more your neeedles and records will wear down. Also extreme anti-skate conditions can put extra strain on your needles and vinyl (i.e. low stylus pressue / high anti-skate or high stylus pressure / low anti-skate.)
Generally, for normal playback, with no back-cueing, scratching etc. then set your stylus pressure to about 2, with your anti-skate at 2 as well. For beatmixing with vigorous cueing, backspins etc. put the stylus pressure to around 3.75 and the anti-skate at 3 (maximum).
Some dj's will reverse the weight and screw it all the way in. This has the effect of increasing the stylus pressure that little bit more due to the fact that the center mass of the weight is not at the geometrical center, but is slightly further towards the back of the weight. Also it's advised to set your anti-skate to 0 for scratching because when scratching you are constantly back-cueing so having anti-skate on is likely to make the needles skip backwards. If it's still jumping a lot then take a look at your technique. Also if you're scratching a specific sample and your needle persistently jumps forward a groove, try to increase the anti-skate dial by a few notches.
How to get the most mileage out of your vinyl
Make sure your needles aren't worn. Keep an eye out for your needle picking up excessive dust and producing distortion. But this time it's already too late, the needle is worn, and it needs to be replaced.
Use the correct tracking force, 99% of cartridge manufacturers out there recommend a tracking force between 2-4g. Anything over that is excessive, and perhaps your turntable is not setup correctly or not level!
Make sure your anti-skating is set correctly. When your turntable is setup correctly, your anti-skating should be set equal to your tracking weight (for normal play) and when scratching it should be set to 0. When scratching, the record is not actually playing, but rather just moving up and down over one point, so you don't need the additional compensation that anti-skating provides. Also, having your anti-skating set to zero will result in less skipping while scratching.
Don't overcue. Running the record back and forth over the first beat while you're waiting to drop it in is damaging to your vinyl and wearing down your needle. It's not necessary, you don't have to do that.
Make sure the height of the tonearm is setup correctly and your tone arm base is locked.
Keep records clean and dust-free.
You just spent your last paycheck on a new pair of cartridges and some new VDJ gen-3 tcv's. You then throw them on and they jump and skip all over. What's wrong? Well either you've been completely ripped off or you've set up your tonearm badly. Remember, setting up your tonearm is a personal thing no two dj's will ever agree on one good setup. I've seen lots of different set-ups and they all seemed to work fine. The best way is to learn what it is you're actually doing when setting up, so that you can adjust certain factors if necessary in other situations.
Cartridge install
If you've bought an all-in-one cartridge (concorde, trackmaster, groovemaster, discmaster etc.) then you don't need to worry, just slam it straight into the tonearm. A quick clean of the contacts with a no.2 pencel eraser on the tone arm contacts is a good idea, especially if your turntable is older. Never lick the contacts, I don't know where this started but if you are licking the contacts to make a good connection, you've got bigger problems, and you should be looking in to replacement parts for your turntable and not buying new needles.
If you've bought a headshell mounting cartridge the process is a little more involved. Be careful when attaching the 4 headshell wires into the cartridge terminals. Be patient and use tweezers if necessary to open the clasp slightly so it slides on the terminals more easily. Additional weights are totally up to you. Some carts will come with them.
Contrary to popular belief you don't just put them on to stop your needle skipping, they're really there to make sure you CAN reach the desired tracking force. Obviously the more headshell weight you put on the higher stylus pressure you can get, but there's only so much weight you actually Need. You can balance any weight you put on the cartridge end with the counter weight at the back of the tonearm (this is not done by putting the weight on backwords), so it might be worthwhile you putting it as it saves you taping weight on the headshell later on.
Where should I position the cartridge in the headshell?
For best sound quality it's recommended that you line the stylus tip up a few mm from the front of the headshell, But many dj's slide the cartridge as far forward as it will go. This will have the effect of slightly increasing the tracking force applied. (not really the best thing to do for obvious reasons)
Tonearm height adjustment
The height adjustment, was intended for different heights of cartridge. But the values in the Technics manual are based on the idea that you would be using the big ugly rubber mats supplied with the decks and not slipmats. Therefore assuming that your slipmats are around 2mm thick, the height ring should stay at 0 unless your cartridge height is above 19mm. For heights above this put the height ring at the corresponding value. e.g. Your cartridge is 21mm high, put your height ring at 2.
In theroy the higher the tonearm, the more downward force should be applied. This is why many scratch dj's put the height ring at maximum. But, I found that doing this made absolutely no perceiveable difference whatsoever. So, the choice is yours. Just remember to lock the section in place once you've finished! Also having the tonearm height set artificially high can cause the stylus to sit at the wrong angle in the groove, cause bad performance (ie these vinyls suck)
Balance weight /anti-skate settings
Wonder why the gen-3 vinyls have a large run out groove, this is why.
With the needle in the run out section (shinny area with no groves, set your anti-skate to 0. Adjust the balance weight (at the back of the tonearm) until you get the tonearm to balance horizontally. It can be a bit tricky, but be careful and more importantly patient (i know you are a dj patience isn't one of your strong points). You should be able to get the stylus to hover a few mm above the surface. Your tonearm should now be hovering, quite naturally, about half-way through the record. Now carefully, and slowly, increase the anti-skating value. The tonearm starts to move back towards the rest position, it must be magic. This demonstrates what anti-skate is there for. It's a means of offsetting the push towards the centre spindle caused by the weight on the cartridge acting unevenly on the s-shaped tonearm.
With the tonearm hovering, move it back to it's rest position and secure it. On the counter weight at the back of the tonearm, there should be a calibration ring facing towards you. If it isn't then you've put the weight on backwards. This is the stylus pressure ring. Now without moving the actual balance weight, swivel this little ring until the 0 lines up with the central groove on your tonearm.This is like a reference point. And it is where the tonearm is said to be horizontally zero balanced. Basically, at this point the cartridge end is balanced and so there is in effect no push on it downwards. By winding the balance weight forward you can now add the stylus pressure.
back to the anti-skate. If you've got a shiny sided record with no grooves, or just use the lead out on the gen-3's and get your deck spinning. Remember when you had your 0 weight point?
The tonearm naturally hovered in the middle of the record. Now screw your balance weight forward to give a stylus pressure of 1. Put the needle down on the shiny record near the start, and it'll zip across the surface, so make sure it doesn't hit the label in the centre. But why doesn't it stay in the middle? Because now you have added stylus pressure, there is a push down on the cartridge now. Because of this there is a force pushing inwards.
The more weight you screw on, the greater the force will be. With your stylus pressure still at 1, set your anti-skate to 1. Now when you put the needle down it should stop somewhere near the middle and not move. This is because the anti-skate has offset the push towards the centre. Now by increasing and decreasing the anti-skate you should be able to get the needle to skate backwards and forwards past the middle point (hours of fun).
So the principle is that by using the anti-skate correctly you have the best average position of the needle. Now you've got an idea of what anti-skate does, you'll probably notice that the anti-skate dial only goes to 3. But what if your stylus pressure is above 3? Well, tough. You just have to leave it at 3 (Some new decks have anti-skate dials that go upto 7).
How much stylus pressure do I need? It depends on the cartridge you are using and what style of mixing you're into. Remember the higher the stylus pressure, the more your neeedles and records will wear down. Also extreme anti-skate conditions can put extra strain on your needles and vinyl (i.e. low stylus pressue / high anti-skate or high stylus pressure / low anti-skate.)
Generally, for normal playback, with no back-cueing, scratching etc. then set your stylus pressure to about 2, with your anti-skate at 2 as well. For beatmixing with vigorous cueing, backspins etc. put the stylus pressure to around 3.75 and the anti-skate at 3 (maximum).
Some dj's will reverse the weight and screw it all the way in. This has the effect of increasing the stylus pressure that little bit more due to the fact that the center mass of the weight is not at the geometrical center, but is slightly further towards the back of the weight. Also it's advised to set your anti-skate to 0 for scratching because when scratching you are constantly back-cueing so having anti-skate on is likely to make the needles skip backwards. If it's still jumping a lot then take a look at your technique. Also if you're scratching a specific sample and your needle persistently jumps forward a groove, try to increase the anti-skate dial by a few notches.
How to get the most mileage out of your vinyl
Make sure your needles aren't worn. Keep an eye out for your needle picking up excessive dust and producing distortion. But this time it's already too late, the needle is worn, and it needs to be replaced.
Use the correct tracking force, 99% of cartridge manufacturers out there recommend a tracking force between 2-4g. Anything over that is excessive, and perhaps your turntable is not setup correctly or not level!
Make sure your anti-skating is set correctly. When your turntable is setup correctly, your anti-skating should be set equal to your tracking weight (for normal play) and when scratching it should be set to 0. When scratching, the record is not actually playing, but rather just moving up and down over one point, so you don't need the additional compensation that anti-skating provides. Also, having your anti-skating set to zero will result in less skipping while scratching.
Don't overcue. Running the record back and forth over the first beat while you're waiting to drop it in is damaging to your vinyl and wearing down your needle. It's not necessary, you don't have to do that.
Make sure the height of the tonearm is setup correctly and your tone arm base is locked.
Keep records clean and dust-free.
Posted Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 6:12 am
ConQuest
I always carry a contact cleaner pen like this: http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/801bp.html
I've never used an eraser but I'm sure it works if Cyder says so.
They have usually have these at Radio Shack which is where I get mine, but for some reason it's not listed on their website.
A quick application gets that timecode signal registering right away. =)
- VT ConQuest
(Visual Turntablist)
I've never used an eraser but I'm sure it works if Cyder says so.
They have usually have these at Radio Shack which is where I get mine, but for some reason it's not listed on their website.
A quick application gets that timecode signal registering right away. =)
- VT ConQuest
(Visual Turntablist)
Posted Fri 16 Mar 07 @ 6:28 am
djzy
ok how do u tell the difference between 2nd and 4rd gen TCVs? i got my TCV like 2 months ago...is that 3rd gen? or 2nd?
[MODERATOR]: please take time to read before posting
[MODERATOR]: please take time to read before posting
Posted Mon 19 Mar 07 @ 10:31 pm
dcasillas
i got some old school stanton 500 will these work with new needles on time coded vinly
Posted Wed 29 Oct 08 @ 10:59 pm
VanStino
Man, i've been screaming for ages that NEEDLES DO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE, but nobody wanted to hear me and kept saying "VDJ scratches suck."
Finally some godly support. (well not godly, just high ranked.)
Finally some godly support. (well not godly, just high ranked.)
Posted Thu 30 Oct 08 @ 5:06 am
good in-depth knowledge!!! wicked thread i think this should be made sticky and with a star on it, as especially new people will learn a lot from it, well done!
Posted Thu 30 Oct 08 @ 8:34 am
spinnaJ
dcasillas wrote :
i got some old school stanton 500 will these work with new needles on time coded vinly
No it will not work great:(
Posted Thu 30 Oct 08 @ 12:26 pm
spinnaJ
VanStino wrote :
Man, i've been screaming for ages that NEEDLES DO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE, but nobody wanted to hear me and kept saying "VDJ scratches suck."
Finally some godly support. (well not godly, just high ranked.)
Finally some godly support. (well not godly, just high ranked.)
U got that right..I agree.hehe;)
Posted Thu 30 Oct 08 @ 12:27 pm
marcellodj
Bookmarked! Thanks alot... :)
Posted Fri 31 Oct 08 @ 9:55 pm