Andrew87
I have had a pair of Numark TT500s for over a year now but have rarely used them. I've taken good care of them though and I'd have thought they'd be as good as new.
Anyway, when using TCV the right deck has a lot of fluctuation (wow and flutter)? compared to the first deck which balances itself between -0.1% and 0.1%. My second deck however fluctuates quicker although I'd imagine it is still balanced. The problem however is it is between 0% and 0.2%. It still has the same variation as the first deck but the pitch is slightly too high. Similarly at -8% it loses 0.1% to the other deck and at 8% gains 0.1%. This is to do with my decks and I don't think there's a way to recalibrate them but this isn't a problem when beatmatching with regular vinyl because you use your ears all the time.
With Virtual DJ when you load a track on the deck it is easy to automatically lock the beats, however because my right deck is always playing between 0% and 0.2% it drifts ahead after a while. Is there an option in Virtual DJ to set some sort of offset? So that the software takes into account that channels 3/4 from my soundcard are 0.1% faster than it should be. That is, to set an offset of 0.1% so that the right turntable will only fluctuate between -0.1% and 0.1%.
Thanks for any help. If this is not currently available, hopefully it will creep its way into 4.0.
Anyway, when using TCV the right deck has a lot of fluctuation (wow and flutter)? compared to the first deck which balances itself between -0.1% and 0.1%. My second deck however fluctuates quicker although I'd imagine it is still balanced. The problem however is it is between 0% and 0.2%. It still has the same variation as the first deck but the pitch is slightly too high. Similarly at -8% it loses 0.1% to the other deck and at 8% gains 0.1%. This is to do with my decks and I don't think there's a way to recalibrate them but this isn't a problem when beatmatching with regular vinyl because you use your ears all the time.
With Virtual DJ when you load a track on the deck it is easy to automatically lock the beats, however because my right deck is always playing between 0% and 0.2% it drifts ahead after a while. Is there an option in Virtual DJ to set some sort of offset? So that the software takes into account that channels 3/4 from my soundcard are 0.1% faster than it should be. That is, to set an offset of 0.1% so that the right turntable will only fluctuate between -0.1% and 0.1%.
Thanks for any help. If this is not currently available, hopefully it will creep its way into 4.0.
Posted Sun 09 Apr 06 @ 6:03 pm
Andrew87
I really think such a feature would be useful. Or even better, intelligent calibration, where you leave your turntable on 0% and the software analyses pitch fluctuation (i.e. if it is going to drift like the above example) and will auto correct for it. I just had a quick mix with standard vinyl and the mixes lasted longer than I'm currently experiencing with a tcv setup without intervention. Of course I can easily get around this by using the Master Tempo button on my HDJC2 but that would be cheating.
Posted Sun 09 Apr 06 @ 10:22 pm
Dj Xeo
dont think so much about it, its probably not even causing a problem, pitch sliders are not designed to go to EXACTLY 8%, the exact speed is not what is important. what is important is the deftness with which you can adjust the pitch. +- 0.2 percent is entirely normal.
Posted Sun 09 Apr 06 @ 11:56 pm
Andrew87
You misunderstood the point of my post. The quartz (0% position) of my secondary turntable is at least 0.1% off according to Virtual DJ. This means Virtual DJ believes the turntable is averaging at 0.1% and 0.2% when it should be at 0%. This creates a drift because rather than fluctuating between the -% and +% it always fluctuates between positive values, causing a drift. This means that a mix cannot be held for very long because the two tunes are playing at different bpms.
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 12:00 am
Dj Xeo
have you actualy tried it? honestly? i dont think that that small a difference will make any difference what so ever.
let me do a test...............
let me do a test...............
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 12:35 am
Dj Xeo
ok ive done a litte bit of messing about and if i set my tt500s to the smallest pitch decrease i can (VDJ says that its-0.1/-0.2) then the tracks will need to be rematched every 30 seconds to stay in the beat. If one TT is that out of alignment try setting the pitch to 8% and moving the pitch slider as slowly as you can until the 0% light turns off. You should now have perfectly matched decks. However this should not happen to a pair of TTs this old and mine are working amazing (i think theyre about 11 months to a year old now). check the slow tt platter for any obstructions and dragging as the speed is determined by a computer so it can only be a major problem if it is nothing else.
Hope this helps you, TT500s are top notch rnt they!
Hope this helps you, TT500s are top notch rnt they!
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 12:53 am
Andrew87
I've tried everything, swapping platters, tonearms, headshells, splitmats etc but it's always the right deck running slightly too fast. Rematching every 30 seconds sounds about right to avoid trainwrecking. Although the mix isn't as tight as it should be before even that small amount of time has been reached. This is why I'd like an offset feature, I know I'm not the only person in the world with a deck with a 0% that is slightly off center. I realise I could set one pitch fader to the smallest appropriate increment but it would be nice to have a software solution. I actually read about the pitch offset existing in the Ms Pinky software and thought that's a good idea.
The TT500s keep their pitch fine especially when matching by ear (which is when you don't notice that the 0% is actually slightly off center). It's a very nice turntable although it's my first so I've nothing to compare it against. I may e-mail Numark attempting to emphasise the importance of having a correct 0% position especially with their new Virtual Vinyl product being released but I'm not sure the warranty will cover my now 15 month old turntables. To be honest, I don't think I'd want to pay the shipping fees to send it to them anyway, perhaps I'll try and get them serviced and have the 0% position corrected that way. Unless of course pitch offset is implemented in Virtual DJ :)
The TT500s keep their pitch fine especially when matching by ear (which is when you don't notice that the 0% is actually slightly off center). It's a very nice turntable although it's my first so I've nothing to compare it against. I may e-mail Numark attempting to emphasise the importance of having a correct 0% position especially with their new Virtual Vinyl product being released but I'm not sure the warranty will cover my now 15 month old turntables. To be honest, I don't think I'd want to pay the shipping fees to send it to them anyway, perhaps I'll try and get them serviced and have the 0% position corrected that way. Unless of course pitch offset is implemented in Virtual DJ :)
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 1:05 am
vpcdj
and that happens when u switch tables sides too?
why not just open it up and fix it by yourself if ur warranty is up?
from google i see a lot of technic sites that explain how to service tables. im sure there'r some sites for numark too. even if not im sure the principle would jsut be the same as technics.
i repair everything myself. started with vcrs to stereos, tvs and now computers..
well i fkt up a lot of them in the beginning. :(
why not just open it up and fix it by yourself if ur warranty is up?
from google i see a lot of technic sites that explain how to service tables. im sure there'r some sites for numark too. even if not im sure the principle would jsut be the same as technics.
i repair everything myself. started with vcrs to stereos, tvs and now computers..
well i fkt up a lot of them in the beginning. :(
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 9:10 pm
Andrew87
I could attempt that but it is really only a problem with TCV. I've only found Technics instructions and the TT500's have a very different layout so I'm not sure it will be the same. I'd really prefer a software solution and I'm positive that this isn't only a feature which I'd benefit from. At the moment there aren't many TCV users (this is an analogue only problem, won't affect TCCD) actively posting on the forums. Just because I'm the only person to have mentioned it so far doesn't mean it's not worth considering.
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 9:16 pm
Superstom
Andrew,
what kind of music do you play. I dont really see the problem. Normally you will have a song and you will mix another song into it. The beats of the both tracks are almost never the same. Therfore you will probably never have both decks at 0%.
Ewout
what kind of music do you play. I dont really see the problem. Normally you will have a song and you will mix another song into it. The beats of the both tracks are almost never the same. Therfore you will probably never have both decks at 0%.
Ewout
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 10:52 pm
Andrew87
If using Virtual DJ's FAME engine (i.e. Auto BPM) you always want your decks to be at 0% and never anything else (assuming that you're playing at the same tempo for a long period of time). That's why what I've suggested is so important. Especially if you're trying to hold down a two minute trance mix with a minimum of fuss.
Posted Mon 10 Apr 06 @ 11:26 pm
Dj Xeo
just move the slider on the turntable to compensate. The easiest solution is often the best........................
Posted Tue 11 Apr 06 @ 12:09 am
Andrew87
I shouldn't have to do that. And after trying that it doesn't actually work. The smallest possible increment is too large it appears. I'm not actually sure where this problem comes from anymore. I have Virtual DJ set to absolute at the moment and closed it whilst a pair of TCV were playing. I opened Virtual DJ again, loaded a song onto the left deck, loaded the exact same song onto the right deck:
The left deck showed a fluctuation between -0.3% and 0.3% whilst the right deck was always at -+0%. Very odd behaviour. Funnily enough the timecode signal was actually at 96% for both decks when I seemed to get the best performance from both decks when at most times they're both at 100%.
I think my problems may lie elsewhere, possibly with my hardware setup or power surges. But I still think a pitch offest is a very handy feature to have.
The left deck showed a fluctuation between -0.3% and 0.3% whilst the right deck was always at -+0%. Very odd behaviour. Funnily enough the timecode signal was actually at 96% for both decks when I seemed to get the best performance from both decks when at most times they're both at 100%.
I think my problems may lie elsewhere, possibly with my hardware setup or power surges. But I still think a pitch offest is a very handy feature to have.
Posted Tue 11 Apr 06 @ 12:24 am
Dj Xeo
one of your decks seems to be faulty from what you say. That is the problem. not VDj
if one is varying by +- 0% and the other is going between +- 0.3% then no amount of offsest will be able to fix it. One of your TTs seems to be busted
if one is varying by +- 0% and the other is going between +- 0.3% then no amount of offsest will be able to fix it. One of your TTs seems to be busted
Posted Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 1:13 am
Andrew87
The decks are fine, if anything is wrong with them, one is 0.1% off center it is simple maths and a simple algorithim implemented into the program which would fix the problem. As I said in a previous post, Virtual DJ only said this +-0% after I closed the program and opened it again whilst the TCV were already playing and then dragged songs onto the deck. There are bugs in the program, e.g. if you right click an unloaded track and choose edit bpm none of the buttons from that gui work.
Even if the left deck did go to +-0.3% it is still constant and will average out at 0%. It's just the right one which seems to be 0.1% more to the positive than neutral.
Even if the left deck did go to +-0.3% it is still constant and will average out at 0%. It's just the right one which seems to be 0.1% more to the positive than neutral.
Posted Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 1:23 am
Dj Xeo
you said one deck varies between +-0.3% and one varies +-0.0% = not good, one is fine and one is quite unstable
Posted Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 1:44 am
Andrew87
I think I may have come closer to a solution. Power surges, I will invest in a power surge adapter ASAP. I used my phone to film my computer screen (geeky thing to do eh) and noticed although the right deck shows more fluctuation than the left, it isn't by a great amount. The weird thing however, is there's a point in the video where both decks almost simultenously quickly drop in pitch for a short period of time way outside of the normal range. They then return and show no problems.
Virtual DJ for me honestly does have very varying pitches, particularly for the right deck which is either damaged or just very sensitive to power.
Here's the video if anyone is interested or wants to tell me that what is happening is perfectly normal.
http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1D8WA283UMMXF1MIAFXG6QW5Z9
(3GP, Quicktime / Realplayer required)
Do note: about 10 seconds into the video both decks had an odd surge in pitch, maybe I need to increase my latency or a power surge protector will solve it. Currently I have 2 x 4 socket adaptors plugged into that one plug socket which can't be good to begin with. The same power socket is powering 470W of PC, other peripherals and my decks..
Virtual DJ for me honestly does have very varying pitches, particularly for the right deck which is either damaged or just very sensitive to power.
Here's the video if anyone is interested or wants to tell me that what is happening is perfectly normal.
http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1D8WA283UMMXF1MIAFXG6QW5Z9
(3GP, Quicktime / Realplayer required)
Do note: about 10 seconds into the video both decks had an odd surge in pitch, maybe I need to increase my latency or a power surge protector will solve it. Currently I have 2 x 4 socket adaptors plugged into that one plug socket which can't be good to begin with. The same power socket is powering 470W of PC, other peripherals and my decks..
Posted Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 2:39 am
Andrew87
It may also be worth nothing that the first program used (which hasn't seen a Virtual DJ TCV related update in a year and a half!) does have a pitch offset feature automatically calculated when automatic calibration is selected. Notice how the right deck (after the surge) barely reaches +-0.1 let alone the +-0.2 which Virtual DJ reaches.
Posted Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 2:58 am
Superstom
Andrew,
you are saying that 1 turntable has more fluctuation than the other. Have you already swapt them, to see if the trouble is your turntable or your vdj setup?
What kind of cartridges do you use. First I used Stanton500 AL's, but had also some fluctuation, after changing them to Sure 447 and Ortofon elektro carts it was a lot better.
I don't understand what you mean with the update. Last version 3.4, was especially for improving timecode use.
What is the advantage using timecode, if you set it to auto beat match? In that case you also could use a simple usb controller instead of 2 turntables. Just my opinion.
Ewout
you are saying that 1 turntable has more fluctuation than the other. Have you already swapt them, to see if the trouble is your turntable or your vdj setup?
What kind of cartridges do you use. First I used Stanton500 AL's, but had also some fluctuation, after changing them to Sure 447 and Ortofon elektro carts it was a lot better.
I don't understand what you mean with the update. Last version 3.4, was especially for improving timecode use.
What is the advantage using timecode, if you set it to auto beat match? In that case you also could use a simple usb controller instead of 2 turntables. Just my opinion.
Ewout
Posted Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 11:20 pm
Andrew87
One table does appear to have more wow and flutter than the other, but no two turntables are alike. All turntables experience wow and flutter and just because one has more than the other doesn't necessarily mean that there's a fault.
I'm really starting to think this problem could be to do with power surges, today my street experienced a powercut and they are doing heavy building work nearby.
My cartridges are Stanton 505 SK II's although I've swapped them (connected via tonearm) between decks and the right deck still seems to drift away.
About the update, if you watched the video you'd understand what I meant. I was using a rival software which is compatible with Virtual DJ TCV; the last update for that compatibility was over a year ago. This software actually had and still does have various TC features which haven't been implemented in Virtual DJ yet, one of them being the pitch offset (although not perfectly) which I've mentioned.
The video shows a normal fluctuation for both decks (apart from the short spike which happened simulatenously and most likely an external power problem). The wow and flutter for the left deck is minimal +-0.02% (yes 0.02 and not 0.2). The right deck has slightly more, -0.03% to 0.06% . This is still less than the +-0.1% variation which would fail the top end decks from quality assurance. Even if these values are only 30% accurate, the right deck would still be between -0.1% and 0.2% which is fair.
Virtual DJ also has similar symptoms to those above although lacking the pitch offset (which isn't implemented as well as it could be) from the other program.
What I have said before and will say again. No the problem doesn't seem to be Virtual DJ, the problem appears to be my right deck not having a proper zero value. As you can see from the above figures, it is not +-0.x but the positive value is slightly higher. Calculating an offset is extremely easy to do and I would like to see it implemented.
Regards to the auto beatmatch, at the moment I'm just testing the waters in regards to VDJ&TCV, I only recently got my DJC2 back from Hercules (I voided the warrenty (superglue a broken switch = big NO!) but luckily the good fellows at Dawsons managed to get them to fix the internals which arrived broken) - not having much luck am I!
Also Virtual DJ's beat detection (whilst being very good) is not always entirely accurate for a whole track. I like being able to manipulate the speed of the record to get the tracks back in sync, whether it be by pitch, platter or spindle - maybe a combination of all three.
If a useful feature is available, why not take advantage of it? It gives you more time to play with loops, cue's and other aspects.
I'm really starting to think this problem could be to do with power surges, today my street experienced a powercut and they are doing heavy building work nearby.
My cartridges are Stanton 505 SK II's although I've swapped them (connected via tonearm) between decks and the right deck still seems to drift away.
About the update, if you watched the video you'd understand what I meant. I was using a rival software which is compatible with Virtual DJ TCV; the last update for that compatibility was over a year ago. This software actually had and still does have various TC features which haven't been implemented in Virtual DJ yet, one of them being the pitch offset (although not perfectly) which I've mentioned.
The video shows a normal fluctuation for both decks (apart from the short spike which happened simulatenously and most likely an external power problem). The wow and flutter for the left deck is minimal +-0.02% (yes 0.02 and not 0.2). The right deck has slightly more, -0.03% to 0.06% . This is still less than the +-0.1% variation which would fail the top end decks from quality assurance. Even if these values are only 30% accurate, the right deck would still be between -0.1% and 0.2% which is fair.
Virtual DJ also has similar symptoms to those above although lacking the pitch offset (which isn't implemented as well as it could be) from the other program.
What I have said before and will say again. No the problem doesn't seem to be Virtual DJ, the problem appears to be my right deck not having a proper zero value. As you can see from the above figures, it is not +-0.x but the positive value is slightly higher. Calculating an offset is extremely easy to do and I would like to see it implemented.
Regards to the auto beatmatch, at the moment I'm just testing the waters in regards to VDJ&TCV, I only recently got my DJC2 back from Hercules (I voided the warrenty (superglue a broken switch = big NO!) but luckily the good fellows at Dawsons managed to get them to fix the internals which arrived broken) - not having much luck am I!
Also Virtual DJ's beat detection (whilst being very good) is not always entirely accurate for a whole track. I like being able to manipulate the speed of the record to get the tracks back in sync, whether it be by pitch, platter or spindle - maybe a combination of all three.
If a useful feature is available, why not take advantage of it? It gives you more time to play with loops, cue's and other aspects.
Posted Wed 12 Apr 06 @ 11:49 pm
