DJ Varium
wattage is irrelevant, especially with active speakers. The only figure that matters is the SPL, which for these i think is 118, compared to 132 for my Yamaha's. You could do upto about 400 people with them, but you would have them maxed out, so yeah. I did have a Bose L1s for about a year (very bad decision) which had SPL of 115 and that could not handle anything more than 150 people, but that was worse because of the height of the speakers. At least with tops on poles you can put them higher to travel further, the bose would just hit the first row of people and die.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 2:03 pm
VDJ Ron
Peavey now seem to be avoiding the speaker rms power value which has been critical for matching the speaker to an amp. SPL is of no use for this purpose.
They are describing my 500wrms speakers as 1000w? https://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/pdf/665/100794 I'll repeat the traditional values over the last 15 years 500wrms, 1000w program and 2000w peak. This change is in line with the cheaper speaker manufacturers.
I'm not really too bothered about SPL, for instance I know Locodog's 215xt's will shake my teeth out, yet I don't know the SPL. Just that there 700wrms, 1400w program, and 2800w peak.
We are in a way being conned.
They are describing my 500wrms speakers as 1000w? https://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/pdf/665/100794 I'll repeat the traditional values over the last 15 years 500wrms, 1000w program and 2000w peak. This change is in line with the cheaper speaker manufacturers.
I'm not really too bothered about SPL, for instance I know Locodog's 215xt's will shake my teeth out, yet I don't know the SPL. Just that there 700wrms, 1400w program, and 2800w peak.
We are in a way being conned.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 9:33 pm
VDJ Ron
https://assets.peavey.com/literature/specs/118167_16696.pdf
Your Yamaha SPL 132 is approximately equal to my Impulse 1012 SPL 133 but the PVx 15 is 120 dB SPL continuous 126 dB SPL peak and is significantly lower.
What power do your Yamaha speakers claim?
Notice the word claim..that applies to all the speakers nowadays..apart from Locodogs monsters lol.
Here is a little information about the old budget Peavey Pro 15 which has a SPL of 122db..maybe.
If you calculate it, you get 122dB, assuming not too many of those watts are converted into heat. SPLs aside, they'll still sound awful.
From another site, agreement with Tony's figures:
To clear up a little bit of confusion here, the number of Watts that a speaker can handle before going up in smoke has absolutely no relation to the amount of sound that it will produce. The marketing people won't tell you this as it's far easier to produce an inefficient speaker that will tolerate 1000W than an efficient one that can manage 300W.
The figures to look at are the maximum SPL, or if that's not quoted, the sensitivity. If the manufacturer doesn't quote either of those, they have something to hide so avoid them.
By my maths, the Peavy Pro 15 you mention will manage a maximum SPL of 122dB, which is not great. The top cab in the HK soundhouse that was mentioned will coincidentally also manage 122dB (Its amp is only 150W but the cab is more efficient). See the problem with just looking at power ratings?
The EV SX300 mentioned quotes a calculated max SPL of 131dB. Note that that's calculated, not measured. My maths puts it more realistically at 123dB. (Personally I think they're horrible speakers - worse than fingernails on a blackboard but plenty of other people seem to like them).
As a comparison, a really good (expensive) cab such as a d&b Q7 is only 400W but manages 138dB as it's maximum SPL. That's getting on for three times as loud as the Peavy. To further confuse the issue, dB is a logarithmic scale; it takes ~10dB increase for a speaker to sound twice as loud. A 3dB increase consumes twice as much power and makes a negligible difference to the volume.
Ultimately, you need to listen to whichever systems you're considering. Paper figures will only ever tell part of the story.
The PVx 15's are an improvement on the old Pro 15's and are terrific value.. but I still would not use them.
I take your point..Christ, what a complete faff. I'm so glad that active speakers are so good these days.
Your Yamaha SPL 132 is approximately equal to my Impulse 1012 SPL 133 but the PVx 15 is 120 dB SPL continuous 126 dB SPL peak and is significantly lower.
What power do your Yamaha speakers claim?
Notice the word claim..that applies to all the speakers nowadays..apart from Locodogs monsters lol.
Here is a little information about the old budget Peavey Pro 15 which has a SPL of 122db..maybe.
If you calculate it, you get 122dB, assuming not too many of those watts are converted into heat. SPLs aside, they'll still sound awful.
From another site, agreement with Tony's figures:
To clear up a little bit of confusion here, the number of Watts that a speaker can handle before going up in smoke has absolutely no relation to the amount of sound that it will produce. The marketing people won't tell you this as it's far easier to produce an inefficient speaker that will tolerate 1000W than an efficient one that can manage 300W.
The figures to look at are the maximum SPL, or if that's not quoted, the sensitivity. If the manufacturer doesn't quote either of those, they have something to hide so avoid them.
By my maths, the Peavy Pro 15 you mention will manage a maximum SPL of 122dB, which is not great. The top cab in the HK soundhouse that was mentioned will coincidentally also manage 122dB (Its amp is only 150W but the cab is more efficient). See the problem with just looking at power ratings?
The EV SX300 mentioned quotes a calculated max SPL of 131dB. Note that that's calculated, not measured. My maths puts it more realistically at 123dB. (Personally I think they're horrible speakers - worse than fingernails on a blackboard but plenty of other people seem to like them).
As a comparison, a really good (expensive) cab such as a d&b Q7 is only 400W but manages 138dB as it's maximum SPL. That's getting on for three times as loud as the Peavy. To further confuse the issue, dB is a logarithmic scale; it takes ~10dB increase for a speaker to sound twice as loud. A 3dB increase consumes twice as much power and makes a negligible difference to the volume.
Ultimately, you need to listen to whichever systems you're considering. Paper figures will only ever tell part of the story.
The PVx 15's are an improvement on the old Pro 15's and are terrific value.. but I still would not use them.
I take your point..Christ, what a complete faff. I'm so glad that active speakers are so good these days.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 9:53 pm
DJ Varium
My Yamaha's claim 1100w, i would assume that is peak, but like i said. I couldn't care less, it means nothing, it only means how much power its drawing. a 5w LED bulb is brighter than a 60w filament bulb because it is more sophisticated. It only matters how many lumens a bulb gives off, not how much energy it needs to get there. same goes for speakers, crap ones need lots of power to get loud, good ones dont need as much. Same for cars, crap ones need big engines to go fast, good ones dont. I could go on.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 10:41 pm
VDJ Ron
Matching an amp with a set of passive speakers seems to be getting harder.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 10:45 pm
djjohnnyrox
I love how this went from virtual sounding bad to his equipment .. let's get back to the original post Try playing the same songs out of iTunes or media player and see how they sound. If they sound ok his equipment is fine for his needs. That also means his settings in virtual may need adjusted If it sounds bad with iTunes or media player Then you can tell him to upgrade
J
J
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 2:45 am
VDJ Ron
I can't let this go Johnny.
His amp supplies between 300-370wrms into 8 ohm.
If Peavey have not made a big change in the way they describe speaker power then the PVx 15's are 200wrms per channel and 8 ohm.
In a large venue it would be natural to push up the volume (the amp would not clip..no red lights) resulting in overheating and distorting the voice coils. This can be checked in seconds after removing the speakers grills.
After trying a mobile phone, cd player, or some other music source fed into the mixer that's where I'd start.
It's what I would fear..and think is probable.
If the voice coils have not been damaged on this occasion then it will happen in the future.
IF YOU HEAR DISTORTION IN YOUR MUSIC DROP THE VOLUME.
Note: When Peavey say the PVx15 is 400w program and 800w peak does that mean they are 200wrms (or continuous) which has always been the case up to this moment in time?
His amp supplies between 300-370wrms into 8 ohm.
If Peavey have not made a big change in the way they describe speaker power then the PVx 15's are 200wrms per channel and 8 ohm.
In a large venue it would be natural to push up the volume (the amp would not clip..no red lights) resulting in overheating and distorting the voice coils. This can be checked in seconds after removing the speakers grills.
After trying a mobile phone, cd player, or some other music source fed into the mixer that's where I'd start.
It's what I would fear..and think is probable.
If the voice coils have not been damaged on this occasion then it will happen in the future.
IF YOU HEAR DISTORTION IN YOUR MUSIC DROP THE VOLUME.
Note: When Peavey say the PVx15 is 400w program and 800w peak does that mean they are 200wrms (or continuous) which has always been the case up to this moment in time?
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 10:37 am
VDJ Ron
Do you see why its important..there will be no red warning lights (clipping) on your amp.
Your speakers will simply be killed.
Your speakers will simply be killed.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 11:09 am
VDJ Ron
https://peavey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45854
We might get an answer..but their forum is not like here, we have experts like Adion, Phantom, and DJDad..we are spoilt !
Interesting..
Re: speakon connectors to the pvx15
Report this post
Quote
Postby Marty McCann » Sun May 03, 2015 5:40 pm
The PVX 15 can handle 200 Watts Continuous, your amplifier produces 300 Watts, so it may have been over powered for your application. Driving that p[ower amplifier with a clipped signal at its input can produce as much as 600 Watts for the clipped peaks,
What were you driving the power amp with?
If it was by any chance a DJ mixer, then your failure probably stemmed from the fact that most DJ mixers do not put out enough voltage to drive a professional power amplifier. This is a too common issue. Many DJ desks are merely consumer or Hi Fi level, i.e. a maximum output of only 2 Volts RMS. Pro audio amplifiers are expecting to be driven by devices that can produce 8 to 16 Volts RMS. So if this was your case you ran out of Headroom and clipped the output of the mixer.
and more..
Re: So many speaker series, but no info why?
Report this post
Quote
Postby SemperFiSound » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:19 am
DMahalko wrote:
- Impulse® Series
- EU™ Series
- PR® Series
- PV® Series
- PVX™ Series
- QW® Series
- SP® BX Series
- Versarray™ Series
PV - entry level
PVX - improved entry level
PR - slightly better
Impulse - beginning of the good stuff
SP - the Ford F-150
EU - nice stuff
QW - REALLY nice stuff
VR - mamma, I'm home
Hope this helps.
Steve
SemperFi Sound; the website
SemperFi Sound On FaceBook
"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
matter what he does." Sun Tzu
We might get an answer..but their forum is not like here, we have experts like Adion, Phantom, and DJDad..we are spoilt !
Interesting..
Re: speakon connectors to the pvx15
Report this post
Quote
Postby Marty McCann » Sun May 03, 2015 5:40 pm
The PVX 15 can handle 200 Watts Continuous, your amplifier produces 300 Watts, so it may have been over powered for your application. Driving that p[ower amplifier with a clipped signal at its input can produce as much as 600 Watts for the clipped peaks,
What were you driving the power amp with?
If it was by any chance a DJ mixer, then your failure probably stemmed from the fact that most DJ mixers do not put out enough voltage to drive a professional power amplifier. This is a too common issue. Many DJ desks are merely consumer or Hi Fi level, i.e. a maximum output of only 2 Volts RMS. Pro audio amplifiers are expecting to be driven by devices that can produce 8 to 16 Volts RMS. So if this was your case you ran out of Headroom and clipped the output of the mixer.
and more..
Re: So many speaker series, but no info why?
Report this post
Quote
Postby SemperFiSound » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:19 am
DMahalko wrote:
- Impulse® Series
- EU™ Series
- PR® Series
- PV® Series
- PVX™ Series
- QW® Series
- SP® BX Series
- Versarray™ Series
PV - entry level
PVX - improved entry level
PR - slightly better
Impulse - beginning of the good stuff
SP - the Ford F-150
EU - nice stuff
QW - REALLY nice stuff
VR - mamma, I'm home
Hope this helps.
Steve
SemperFi Sound; the website
SemperFi Sound On FaceBook
"The Art of War teaches us to rely, not upon the calculated likelihood of
the enemy's coming or not, but on our own readiness to receive him... no
matter what he does." Sun Tzu
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 12:25 pm
yourlive
Ron, why do you worry so much about his equipment? You've posted almost 20 messages in this topic, mainly about his Peavey speakers. And he doesn't seem to care, and he sure as hell doesn't want to hear his budget equipment is probably the reason. But that's understandable, we're all proud of our equipment and we're all on a budget, although some peoples budget is higher than others ;-)
@howitzer, how is the sound quality when you plug in your headphones directly into your laptop? And when you listen to the headphones throught the mixer? Did you already try another source like your phone or a cd/dvd player?
@howitzer, how is the sound quality when you plug in your headphones directly into your laptop? And when you listen to the headphones throught the mixer? Did you already try another source like your phone or a cd/dvd player?
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 1:00 pm
VDJ Ron
It's for me..and every other user of passive speakers.
No one will want to accidentally destroy their own speakers.
In fact it may be more like murder than accidental.
Saving people from mini disasters is worth pissing a few people off.
I suspect a salesman has recommended this speaker/amp combination but it may not be suitable for a DJ.
Also Peavey seems to be a very popular brand for people in this forum, they need information so as to purchase wisely.
We have an answer..
https://peavey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45854
I could push this further ..anyway to compete with other companies Peavey have changed the way they sell their speakers..it's more real world !
UK Peavey engineers at their old HQ in Corby recommended, face to face, matching amp and speaker rms (continuous) power values. Some musicians like headroom and use an amp of up to 1.5x the rms value of the speaker. This may not be wise for a DJ karaoke person.
No one will want to accidentally destroy their own speakers.
In fact it may be more like murder than accidental.
Saving people from mini disasters is worth pissing a few people off.
I suspect a salesman has recommended this speaker/amp combination but it may not be suitable for a DJ.
Also Peavey seems to be a very popular brand for people in this forum, they need information so as to purchase wisely.
We have an answer..
https://peavey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=45854
I could push this further ..anyway to compete with other companies Peavey have changed the way they sell their speakers..it's more real world !
UK Peavey engineers at their old HQ in Corby recommended, face to face, matching amp and speaker rms (continuous) power values. Some musicians like headroom and use an amp of up to 1.5x the rms value of the speaker. This may not be wise for a DJ karaoke person.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 1:04 pm
VDJ Ron
I don't know whether they will reply to my last question but I found this document on the Peavey website..
https://peavey.com/support/technotes/poweramps/HOW_MUCH_POWER.pdf
Quote:
If you are looking for a recommendation so that you would be relatively free of blowing up the speaker under almost any real world condition, you should pick an amplifier that can deliver the continuous rating of the speaker or a little less.
Matching speaker / amp rms values is the safest or a little less.
So we might want 50% of speaker program power, in this case an amp of 200wrms per channel but the amp in this thread supplies up to 370wrms and that's not under clipping conditions when the rms power can double !
If the guy on the Peavey forum replies I suspect he will say 80% of program power.
Anyway I'm no longer confused.
..the old Peavey engineers offered good advice.
https://peavey.com/support/technotes/poweramps/HOW_MUCH_POWER.pdf
Quote:
If you are looking for a recommendation so that you would be relatively free of blowing up the speaker under almost any real world condition, you should pick an amplifier that can deliver the continuous rating of the speaker or a little less.
Matching speaker / amp rms values is the safest or a little less.
So we might want 50% of speaker program power, in this case an amp of 200wrms per channel but the amp in this thread supplies up to 370wrms and that's not under clipping conditions when the rms power can double !
If the guy on the Peavey forum replies I suspect he will say 80% of program power.
Anyway I'm no longer confused.
..the old Peavey engineers offered good advice.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 4:16 pm
groovindj
Actually, the commonest advice on matching amps to passive speakers is to use an amp that has more power than the speakers need.
The reason is to provide overhead - like a car cruising easily at 70 because it is capable of 140, vs one that's absolutely flat out at 70.
The reason is to provide overhead - like a car cruising easily at 70 because it is capable of 140, vs one that's absolutely flat out at 70.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 5:14 pm
VDJ Ron
The problem is we all might clip the signal occasionally which may doubles the rms power sent to the speaker.
I'm aware that musicians often use a factor of 1.5x the speaker rms value.
This figure has been posted all over the forums for many years.
Musicians want to maximize sound output and quality and will often take risks a engineer would not.
I would prefer to take a Peavey engineers advice, or the safe recommendation of Peavey documentation.
They maintain and build the speakers.
If you want to take risks that's your choice...
Yep..it's an important and controversial topic.
That's why I spent so much time on this thread.
Interestingly the powered version of the PVx 15 provides 325w to the driver but it does have electronic thermal protection. No such protection exists in the passive version. This is why I suspect an answer on the Peavey forum might be 80% program speaker watts which is 320w. But I'm wondering if they might just ignore my post. Here we have active top of the range experts.
I'm aware that musicians often use a factor of 1.5x the speaker rms value.
This figure has been posted all over the forums for many years.
Musicians want to maximize sound output and quality and will often take risks a engineer would not.
I would prefer to take a Peavey engineers advice, or the safe recommendation of Peavey documentation.
They maintain and build the speakers.
If you want to take risks that's your choice...
Yep..it's an important and controversial topic.
That's why I spent so much time on this thread.
Interestingly the powered version of the PVx 15 provides 325w to the driver but it does have electronic thermal protection. No such protection exists in the passive version. This is why I suspect an answer on the Peavey forum might be 80% program speaker watts which is 320w. But I'm wondering if they might just ignore my post. Here we have active top of the range experts.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 6:06 pm
acw_dj
howitzer wrote :
o.k so here the problem...I'm not happy witht the sound coming out of my speakers Here is my set up two toshiba satellite laptops each running vdj 8....headphone out ...into a BEHRINGER XENYX QX1622USB....before you even statr with a controller...I'm old school. out to a peavey IPR2 2000 digital amp...into a pair of peavey PVx15's...I'm toying with the idea of getting an external soundcard ...my internal soundcard is set to 44100 32 bit. It doesn't sound terrble ...it's just not as full and dynamic as I would like it ...I've tried every setting adjustment. any thought on external sound cards, and do you think tey might solve my problem
To solve the issue my first suggestion is to get a decent sound card interface. Behringer is not know to provide this and the computer sound card would not be enough for pro use, so I would suggest another brands, but the budget is the real issue.
If you don't mind, you may like to use a Mackie Onyx Blackbird (if your computer can use a Firewire port) or a Allen & Heat ZED 16 FX mixer that may look as the Behringer, but would sound a lot better. If you only can use a USB sound card, then use the one on the mixer or buy one with Dynamic range > 105db. If you find some with 114db in Dynamic Range you would get the best audio quality. (also get 20-20KHz and low THD minimum and 4 outs at least).
Cheers,
Selected as best answer Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 6:13 pm
acw_dj
We can debate on speakers on another thread, personally I like RCF (ART-715 or HDs) or Opera by DBTechnologies, QSC has some decent ones, but you would be amazed on the sound on the new CerwinVega (CX) line. Or just go and peak a Allen & Heat Xone PX5 mixer and use it with Nexo, Meyer Sound and enjoy the quality. :-)
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 6:19 pm
VDJ Ron
I'm not selling speakers..the people here know me better than that.
I'm offering a reason why the guy who started this thread might have damaged drivers and how he can check them in seconds.
I think its too complicated for a lot of people...including you.
This should be done and dusted by now.
I repeat again just take the grill off, lay the speaker on its back, and gently move the diaphragm up and down with your fingers around the edges of the cone. If you hear noise and the voice coil is catching the driver magnet then the speaker is faulty. It's easy and does not cost. It's a routine speaker check.
see link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31768KUK9K8
I've done it a many, many times. Its all over in a few minutes. It's a very important speaker test.
I'm offering a reason why the guy who started this thread might have damaged drivers and how he can check them in seconds.
I think its too complicated for a lot of people...including you.
This should be done and dusted by now.
I repeat again just take the grill off, lay the speaker on its back, and gently move the diaphragm up and down with your fingers around the edges of the cone. If you hear noise and the voice coil is catching the driver magnet then the speaker is faulty. It's easy and does not cost. It's a routine speaker check.
see link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31768KUK9K8
I've done it a many, many times. Its all over in a few minutes. It's a very important speaker test.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 6:23 pm
lincol2
[quote=bigron1] It's a routine speaker check]
Does this apply to powered speakers as well? I would love to see a video how this is done.
Does this apply to powered speakers as well? I would love to see a video how this is done.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 6:45 pm
VDJ Ron
Yes ..I've just added a youtube link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31768KUK9K8
I don't like the way the guy depresses just one side of the speaker. Spread your fingers evenly around the edges of the cone and very gently press.
Do not put a dint in the cone.
The driver in the PVx 15 passive speaker is the same as the driver in the active version.
It should be noted that a voice coil can be toast but still have continuity, and still function although it will produce inferior sound.
Not all are totally burnt out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31768KUK9K8
I don't like the way the guy depresses just one side of the speaker. Spread your fingers evenly around the edges of the cone and very gently press.
Do not put a dint in the cone.
The driver in the PVx 15 passive speaker is the same as the driver in the active version.
It should be noted that a voice coil can be toast but still have continuity, and still function although it will produce inferior sound.
Not all are totally burnt out.
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 6:55 pm
VDJ Ron
We've got another comment on the Peavey forum saying "don't bother with the passive speakers get the active ones". I don't agree with that comment. Passive is ok.
The reality is that the PVx 15's are good speakers but they only need a cheap amp (200wrms per channel at 8 ohm) to drive them. They would do a very good job in a small / medium sized venue..maybe a pub.
They are top of the range budget speakers.
A Behringer inuke 1000 at @£120 may be good.
Yet another comment on the Peavey website, and it's as expected.
dedmeet makes a great recommendation of going with the powered ones. It's a great cabinet for the money and the nice thing about powered is that you know the amplifier is designed perfectly for the speaker.
Barring that... The general recommendation here is to get an amp that is 75-80% of the PROGRAM power of the speaker. In this case that would mean a 300 watt power amp. The IPR2 2000 is a great choice. And did you notice that 75% of the program power is also 1.5 x RMS? Same power, different formula.
Now that is what I expected 80% of speaker program power ???
It contradicts the safe recommendations of both my Peavey documentation and their engineers with whom I've spoken.
I wonder if Peavey makes an amp which provides approx. 200wrms per channel or is the IPR2000 the nearest?
The reality is that the PVx 15's are good speakers but they only need a cheap amp (200wrms per channel at 8 ohm) to drive them. They would do a very good job in a small / medium sized venue..maybe a pub.
They are top of the range budget speakers.
A Behringer inuke 1000 at @£120 may be good.
Yet another comment on the Peavey website, and it's as expected.
dedmeet makes a great recommendation of going with the powered ones. It's a great cabinet for the money and the nice thing about powered is that you know the amplifier is designed perfectly for the speaker.
Barring that... The general recommendation here is to get an amp that is 75-80% of the PROGRAM power of the speaker. In this case that would mean a 300 watt power amp. The IPR2 2000 is a great choice. And did you notice that 75% of the program power is also 1.5 x RMS? Same power, different formula.
Now that is what I expected 80% of speaker program power ???
It contradicts the safe recommendations of both my Peavey documentation and their engineers with whom I've spoken.
I wonder if Peavey makes an amp which provides approx. 200wrms per channel or is the IPR2000 the nearest?
Posted Thu 04 May 17 @ 8:05 pm
