Sonido Alto Voltaje
Don Moir wrote :
Had a chance to test VDJ8 build 1890 on another i7 machine with an Intel HD Graphics 4000 GPU.
Using the ScrollTest.lay file with Essential Visuals for testing which you can download below. The ScrollTest.lay file contains a single scrolling image and will display at the height of the video display. It will easily show tearing and jitter. You can't tell these things from straight up video.
o - with skin up at 30 FPS and Video at 30 FPS CPU at 6 percent - smooth except when full screen. Full screen shows some tearing and jitter
o - with skin minimized and Video at 30 FPS CPU at 2 percent - not as smooth as when skin up - that's strange isn't it?
o - with skin up at 30 FPS and Video at 60 FPS CPU at 7 percent - smooth except when full screen. Full screen shows some tearing and jitter
o - with skin minimized and Video at 60 FPS CPU at 2 percent - smooth and no tearing full screen and not full screen
Andrew had said this was fixed. It will never be fixed until you stop drawing the entire skin as some FPS. Draw only dirty regions at some rate and get rid of Skin FPS. Appears you are using Direct3D for skin drawing. 1) don't draw the entire display when not necessary. 2) beware of pixel shaders. 3) use SetScissorsRect where appropriate.
Generally, much better when skin is minimized. This whole thing does not leave you with a warm fuzzy feeling about things to put this politely you know.
Essential Visuals is here:
http://sms.pangolin.com/temp/EssentialVisualsBeta8.zip
ScrollTest.zip is here. Unzip. Run EV and load ScrollTest.lay. Activate. Shows tearing and jitter easily.
http://sms.pangolin.com/temp/ScrollTest.zip
Using the ScrollTest.lay file with Essential Visuals for testing which you can download below. The ScrollTest.lay file contains a single scrolling image and will display at the height of the video display. It will easily show tearing and jitter. You can't tell these things from straight up video.
o - with skin up at 30 FPS and Video at 30 FPS CPU at 6 percent - smooth except when full screen. Full screen shows some tearing and jitter
o - with skin minimized and Video at 30 FPS CPU at 2 percent - not as smooth as when skin up - that's strange isn't it?
o - with skin up at 30 FPS and Video at 60 FPS CPU at 7 percent - smooth except when full screen. Full screen shows some tearing and jitter
o - with skin minimized and Video at 60 FPS CPU at 2 percent - smooth and no tearing full screen and not full screen
Andrew had said this was fixed. It will never be fixed until you stop drawing the entire skin as some FPS. Draw only dirty regions at some rate and get rid of Skin FPS. Appears you are using Direct3D for skin drawing. 1) don't draw the entire display when not necessary. 2) beware of pixel shaders. 3) use SetScissorsRect where appropriate.
Generally, much better when skin is minimized. This whole thing does not leave you with a warm fuzzy feeling about things to put this politely you know.
Essential Visuals is here:
http://sms.pangolin.com/temp/EssentialVisualsBeta8.zip
ScrollTest.zip is here. Unzip. Run EV and load ScrollTest.lay. Activate. Shows tearing and jitter easily.
http://sms.pangolin.com/temp/ScrollTest.zip
I hope this gets addressed. I have to lower the skin FPS on my 2GB GeForce GT 650M. Next thing I know I'm going to need SLI just to run the skin. lol
Posted Fri 18 Jul 14 @ 5:31 pm
Don Moir
Just turned aero on for new i7 laptop. The tearing and jitter went away full screen or not full screen, and skin up or minimized with skin FPS at 30 and video FPS as 60. Video FPS at 30 shows too much jitter.
Moral is try aero on and aero off. For me best results on this machine aero on, video FPS at 60. Smooth either way and no tearing or jitter but seems still better thru put with skin minimized.
Best results to me mean, slick smooth, no tearing, or jitter, using above ScrollTest.lay example.
Moral is try aero on and aero off. For me best results on this machine aero on, video FPS at 60. Smooth either way and no tearing or jitter but seems still better thru put with skin minimized.
Best results to me mean, slick smooth, no tearing, or jitter, using above ScrollTest.lay example.
Posted Fri 18 Jul 14 @ 8:19 pm
dcomo
Problem exists on the Mac too... No aero there... :-(
Posted Fri 18 Jul 14 @ 9:49 pm
Don Moir
dcomo wrote :
Problem exists on the Mac too... No aero there... :-(
Yeah I know. Not saying they don't need to improve skin drawing and the sooner the better. Just saying what I see. What kind of results to you see on mac CPU wise skin up and down and videoFPS at 30 and 60?
Never mind I see you posted that already. Temps are another thing and just looking for smoothness now. The temps and performance should improve is they ever fix skin drawing.
Posted Fri 18 Jul 14 @ 9:55 pm
Adion
Btw, for full-screen secondary display on windows, some fixes have been made to the 'forceVideoFullScreen' option.
For the jittering this mode might work better at the moment, at least it's worth a try to compare.
For the jittering this mode might work better at the moment, at least it's worth a try to compare.
Posted Sat 19 Jul 14 @ 7:33 am
Don Moir
A one percent difference up or down on an i7 machine means more than it does on a lesser machine. It's relative and 1% on i7 could mean 5 to 10 percent on some other machine.
With aero on, and running just ScrollTest.lay full screen or not:
o - Skin up at 30 FPS and video at 60 FPS - CPU at 2 to 3 percent.
o - Skin minimized and video at 60 FPS - CPU rock solid at zero percent.
With aero on, and running just ScrollTest.lay full screen or not:
o - Skin up at 30 FPS and video at 60 FPS - CPU at 2 to 3 percent.
o - Skin minimized and video at 60 FPS - CPU rock solid at zero percent.
Posted Sat 19 Jul 14 @ 12:42 pm
Sonido Alto Voltaje
Adion wrote :
Btw, for full-screen secondary display on windows, some fixes have been made to the 'forceVideoFullScreen' option.
For the jittering this mode might work better at the moment, at least it's worth a try to compare.
For the jittering this mode might work better at the moment, at least it's worth a try to compare.
I'm glad this was brought up because I had been playing with the "forceVideoFullScreen" set to 1 all week and noticed right away it had been drastically improved. The only thing I experienced was that you cannot disable and reenable the video output. You have to restart VDJ. I also had it once where the left deck video preview got very distorted. The main out was fine.
My point is that my PC performs perfect in this mode no mater how high the skin or video FPS are set too. No temp issues. In previous post it was recommended not to use this mode so I didn't want to go live with it last night. Has this changed?
Posted Sat 19 Jul 14 @ 12:58 pm
djmrmc
Sonido Alto Voltaje wrote :
I'm glad this was brought up because I had been playing with the "forceVideoFullScreen" set to 1 all week and noticed right away it had been drastically improved. The only thing I experienced was that you cannot disable and reenable the video output. You have to restart VDJ. I also had it once where the left deck video preview got very distorted. The main out was fine.
My point is that my PC performs perfect in this mode no mater how high the skin or video FPS are set too. No temp issues. In previous post it was recommended not to use this mode so I didn't want to go live with it last night. Has this changed?
Adion wrote :
Btw, for full-screen secondary display on windows, some fixes have been made to the 'forceVideoFullScreen' option.
For the jittering this mode might work better at the moment, at least it's worth a try to compare.
For the jittering this mode might work better at the moment, at least it's worth a try to compare.
I'm glad this was brought up because I had been playing with the "forceVideoFullScreen" set to 1 all week and noticed right away it had been drastically improved. The only thing I experienced was that you cannot disable and reenable the video output. You have to restart VDJ. I also had it once where the left deck video preview got very distorted. The main out was fine.
My point is that my PC performs perfect in this mode no mater how high the skin or video FPS are set too. No temp issues. In previous post it was recommended not to use this mode so I didn't want to go live with it last night. Has this changed?
I too have noticed in the 1890 beta that with the "forcevideofullscreen" fix I no longer get any tearing (as per this thread http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/190972/VirtualDJ_8_bug-report_Forum/Screen_Tearing___VideoForceFullScreen.html?search=tearing&page=1) and video works great just like V7 although I have the same problem that if for any reason I disable the main video output you can't renable it and a restart of VDJ is required.
Posted Sat 19 Jul 14 @ 3:31 pm
djservices
Can a skin be made that does not redraw everything, and only redraws the bits that it needs to.
Or am I missing something.
Or am I missing something.
Posted Sat 19 Jul 14 @ 9:12 pm
RadiOnlineChile
this trouble is also related with the "hardware acceleration" implementation, as I mentioned in page 1: http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/189832/VirtualDJ_8_bug-report_Forum/Constant_Skin_redrawing_eating_the_CPU.html?page=1
also I forgot to mention that this trouble cause a more fast consumption of the battery in: notebooks, laptops, tablets and related devices.
also I forgot to mention that this trouble cause a more fast consumption of the battery in: notebooks, laptops, tablets and related devices.
Posted Sat 19 Jul 14 @ 11:18 pm
vjmundy
In was thinking same idea. If was posible to set in skin which part must me redraw and which not. That could to low use processor charge. Anyway i would like to contrats The vdj8 because now its posible to play vídeos 4K
Posted Sun 20 Jul 14 @ 1:01 am
Don Moir
RadiOnlineChile wrote :
this trouble is also related with the "hardware acceleration" implementation, as I mentioned in page 1: http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/189832/VirtualDJ_8_bug-report_Forum/Constant_Skin_redrawing_eating_the_CPU.html?page=1.
There can be drawing contention but that is not the case here for the most part. It's pretty much unheard of for any application to draw it's entire GUI at some FPS. Part's of it yes, but mostly these parts are in the minority. Imagine if every application running on your machine was redrawing it's entire GUI at some FPS. Your machine would not be very useable. Mostly applications set idle as far the GUI goes, updating only when needed and then usually small parts of the GUI or areas that need to be painted as they come into view or resized.
I did not even want to respond to the above post but I just can't help it :) Don't try to sidetrack the real issue. The only issue is sloppy coding and hopefully the dev's realize that and will fix it. Why optimization of this sort was not done on day one, 2 or 3 years ago, I guess we will never know.
Posted Sun 20 Jul 14 @ 1:11 am
vjmundy
Omg, I got better result disabling hardware acceleration with skin working at 60fps, Macbook pro is WARM! NO HOT! and skin running very smooth
video at 30fps, smothly!!
I think if you have better processor is good idea disable hardware accec. and leave this resources to video processing.
I am using dennyo skin.
problems:, :( waveform, no colored but smooth (its ok) but video transition doesn't works, only extremely cut is fine.
for me is ok.
Its only test mode, obviously I recommend hardware acce. for run normally and live gigs
video at 30fps, smothly!!
I think if you have better processor is good idea disable hardware accec. and leave this resources to video processing.
I am using dennyo skin.
problems:, :( waveform, no colored but smooth (its ok) but video transition doesn't works, only extremely cut is fine.
for me is ok.
Its only test mode, obviously I recommend hardware acce. for run normally and live gigs
Posted Mon 21 Jul 14 @ 11:38 pm
VIP DISCO & KARAOKE
Don Moir wrote :
A one percent difference up or down on an i7 machine means more than it does on a lesser machine. It's relative and 1% on i7 could mean 5 to 10 percent on some other machine.
With aero on, and running just ScrollTest.lay full screen or not:
o - Skin up at 30 FPS and video at 60 FPS - CPU at 2 to 3 percent.
o - Skin minimized and video at 60 FPS - CPU rock solid at zero percent.
With aero on, and running just ScrollTest.lay full screen or not:
o - Skin up at 30 FPS and video at 60 FPS - CPU at 2 to 3 percent.
o - Skin minimized and video at 60 FPS - CPU rock solid at zero percent.
Don I have replicated your testing and can confirm your findings. I am running a GT6300 Video Card and with Aero on I am getting CPU @ 5% windowed and 0% when minimised, which leads me to think that the Skin FPS is certainly putting a load on the CPU, which on a lower powered PC or Mac will affect the quality of video playback.
It is especially noticable on scrolling text - you get the Jittering effect - it is quite noticeable.
This needs further investigation by the DEVs I would have thought.
We never had this in VD7.
Posted Fri 31 Oct 14 @ 9:22 am
Don Moir
As it stands, if it was me out there putting on the show, I would be using i7 or better machine, aero on, and video FPS set to 60. This leads to ultra smooth scrolling with no tearing or jitter. With aero on, it can reduce CPU usage when running VDJ8. The constant skin redrawing should not be there but it is and the above machine/settings can help to over come that. Skin FPS can be set at 30 or less with the above machine specs and aero on although it still eats at the CPU a few percent which is a lot on an i7 for just the UI. You really don't want to be putting on a show when your machine can hardly keep up. You really don't want VDJ wasting cycles redrawing the skin either.
VDJ8 has vertical sync in place and VDJ7 does not. Vertical sync is great and can eliminate tearing as long as it is not effecting timing because jerky behavior is worse than tearing. For some that have a lesser machine, it might be good to have an option to turn vertical sync off.
If you have a PC and want to test this, use TellyVisuals and the ScrollTest.lay file. This combo is perfect for testing these things out and will easily show tearing or jitter or jerky or absolute smooth. You can then fine tune your settings to see what works best for you.
http://www.tellyvisuals.com for TV download. Be sure to use the latest TV which is version 1.28.
http://www.tellyvisuals.com/ScrollTest.lay for the layout file. Just load into TV and activate and run test.
VDJ8 has vertical sync in place and VDJ7 does not. Vertical sync is great and can eliminate tearing as long as it is not effecting timing because jerky behavior is worse than tearing. For some that have a lesser machine, it might be good to have an option to turn vertical sync off.
If you have a PC and want to test this, use TellyVisuals and the ScrollTest.lay file. This combo is perfect for testing these things out and will easily show tearing or jitter or jerky or absolute smooth. You can then fine tune your settings to see what works best for you.
http://www.tellyvisuals.com for TV download. Be sure to use the latest TV which is version 1.28.
http://www.tellyvisuals.com/ScrollTest.lay for the layout file. Just load into TV and activate and run test.
Posted Fri 31 Oct 14 @ 4:02 pm