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Forum: General Discussion

Topic: XP10 vs DAC-2 vs Hercules DJ Console Review - Page: 1

This part of topic is old and might contain outdated or incorrect information

XP10 vs DAC-2 vs Hercules DJ Console Review coming soon.

As I have all of these controllers, I can review the pros and cons of each one.

Look for a post later today to follow

WirelessDJ
 

Posted Sun 14 Nov 04 @ 3:37 pm
You dont have a uc33c though and that goes hand in hand with the XP10 . Together they are way more superior than any other controller on the market today.
 

Posted Sun 14 Nov 04 @ 5:19 pm
I haven't seen the UC33. is that the midi mixer? Maybe you can add some comments so the users are aware of that too
 

Posted Sun 14 Nov 04 @ 5:25 pm
well, here it is a review of the DAC-2, XP10, and the DJ Console. I realize that I am going to get all kind of flack from those on the forum who own various controllers. My intention is to objectively review all three of them. There is NO RIGHT OR WRONG, this is my experience with all three.

-- Manufacturer --
a) DAC-2 - Visiosonic
b) XP10 - EKS
c) DJ Console - Hercules


-- Price --
a) DAC-2 - $375
b) XP10 - 299 € (each)
c) DJ Console - $249 USD


-- Layout --
a) DAC-2 - Dual Deck standard DJ layout
b) XP10 - Single Deck but with software can be switched back and forh
c) DJ Console - Dual Deck, mirror image (play/cue button are not in the same spot for both decks)


-- Overall Construction --
a) DAC-2 - Professional quality, metal, heavy duty, rack mountable. Designed to be used with a rack mount mixer. Also works on tabletop with included rubber feet. Connections come out the side but cleverly designed so that it is cut out and does not get blocked if put in a short depth rack or on a table.
b) XP10 - Unit is made of plastic, very lightweight, designed for table top use. Can be mounted in a rack mount but only with a custom built rack shelf ; currently no one sells anything.
c) DJ Console - Consumer Quality. Unit is made of plastic, heavier and more robust than the XP10. Connections come out the back and front. Includes plastic cover to protect knobs.
Advantage: DAC-2


-- Interface --
a) DAC-2 - USB
b) XP10 - USB
c) DJ Console - USB
Advantage: N/A


-- Power Source --
a) DAC-2 - Requires AC adapter (included). This could be a pain for those travelling light
b) XP10 - bus powered
c) DJ Console - bus powered
Advantage: XP10 and DJ Console


-- Button Quality --
a) DAC-2 - Non-lighted, rubber, nice travel, good feel, intelligent and familar layout similar to CD decks. has real click switches inside. I like the feel of the DAC-2 buttons.Because they are real switches they won't wear out like the DJ Console.
b) XP10 - Intelligent layout, non-lighted, hard plastic, can be tough to press at time and does not provide good feedback. inside there are real click switches. I don't like the feel of the XP10 buttons. EKS should have used soft rubber but that probably increase the cost of the units. Because they are real switches they won't wear out like the DJ Console.
c) DJ Console - Lighted, not as responsive as the other controllers, cluttered layout can be a pain sometimes when pressing the play/cue and bumping the wheel. Buttons are not real switches, they are a pc board with a rubber conductive button that presses down on it. Like your remote control or cordless phone, IT CAN WEAR OUT from constant use. Not designed to last a long time
Advantage: DAC-2.


-- Sliders --
a) DAC-2 - Slider resolution was the worst of the three. I could not accurately get the % to move as I want it. Accuracy changes as you move it... 98.1, 98.2, 98.4, 98.5, 98.6, 98.7, 98.9, (note it skipped 98.3 and 98.8). Seems more accurate on the outside than the inside. It might be the software and how they read the slider, I am not able to tell. Travel is about the same as a conventional dual deck CD deck
b) XP10 - XP10 has the higest resolution slider of the three! Very smooth and accurate. However, the XP10 is lacking a center lock position so you don't know where the zero point is without looking at the screen. It moves so freely that it sometimes seems toyish, but understand inside is a high quality potentiometer. it would be a bit more professional if they chose a better slider cap; the one included is a bit cheap feeling plastic. The very long travel distance helps to give DJ accurate control over pitch.
c) DJ Console - Resolution is surprisingly good for a consumer product. I am able to get single digit BPMs if you move it slow enough 98.1, 98.2, 98.3, etc. also has a center lock for zero. The travel on the Console is the shortest of all three though.
Advantage: XP10 has the best resolution, second best is DJ Console.


-- Jog Wheels --
a) DAC-2 - The DAC 2 is a rotary switch and the inner wheel does not spin freely when spun. However, the DAC-2 has a spring loaded outer wheel which makes it great for scanning through the track. You get two wheels in one. I would compare the DAC-2 wheel to that of a numark CDN22 dual deck CD player. Does not jump and down as the DJ Console does and can not be bumped accidently. Inner wheel is ideal for pitch bending and setting cue points. Not good for scratching.
b) XP10 - The XP10 has hundreds of positions and spins fairly freely but not as well as the DJ Console. Inside there is a very expensive optical wheel (about $44 each I looked it up). The wheel will NEVER EVER wear out and is ideal for pitch bending, scratching, and setting cue points. The XP10 is the largest wheel of the three and almost the size of a CD. In addition, the XP10 has a touch plate on top that makes it idea for scratching. It allows the software to toggle the hold on/off and improves the functionality of the jog wheel. Placing you hand on, underneath, or just above the plate stops the deck. It can be annoying as the wheel can not be placed on a metal table or it will continually STOP. I assume this is why the XP10 is all plastic as a metal case would interfere with the touch plate. Real world mixing experience: Reaching over the XP10 if your arm comes close to the XP10, it will STOP the deck. The wheel does not spin as freely as the DJ console though and I am unable to do a backspin withough using an effect with VDJ.
c) DJ Console - I believe i counted about 50+ positions on the hercules jog wheel; it is really hard to tell since I upgraded the firmware. This puts it better than the DAC-2 but much less than the XP10. The nice thing about the Console is that it spins sooooo freely. It is beautiful! Even More freely than the XP10. I am able to do a backspin with the jog wheels without using a VDJ canned effect. If it only were more accurate it would be perfect. I think the new hercules firmware changes the accuracy of the wheel which fixed the problem of the wheel moving. But be warned, the new hercules DJ Console has compatibility problems with VDJ. I would compare the overall feel with that of a Numark CDN 88 dual deck CD player only less accurate.
Advantage: XP10 for best accuracy, quality and functionality.


-- Sound Card --
a) DAC-2 - No sound card. Designed to be used in professional environment with a high-end sound card and using a real DJ mixer.
b) XP10 - Has built in sound card with RCA line outs. 2 channels left and right, shows up as composite usb device needs NO DRIVERS; truely plug and play Does not support ASIO. Designed to be used in professional environment and using a real DJ mixer.
c) DJ Console - Consumer Quality. Has built in sound card with RCA line outs. 6 channels left and right x 3, optical out, optical in, MIDI in, MIDI Out, Headphone out with bolume, microphone in, Line in, supports ASIO drivers for lower latency, Requires drivers and systray application.
Advantage: DJ Console has much more I/O, second choice XP10

I did not compare sound quality on these, that will be done at a later post!


-- Display --
a) DAC-2 - has a backlighted LCD display that can be configuted to show any combination of pitch, time remain, time elapses, cue points, loops, BPM,
b) XP10 - No display, No LEDS, No power indicator
c) DJ Console - LED's for headphone cue monitor, LED's for FX/Cue/Loop, mic peak, lighted buttons
Advantage: DAC-2


-- Compatibility --
a) DAC-2 - Works with PCDJ Red, PCDJ FX, DJ Power, Mixvibes, VDJ. Also with the addition of a 3rd party program www.gizmolabs.net the controller supports MIDI enabled systems,using MIDI or keyboard commands.
b) XP10 - Currently only work with VDJ, and Bison. Mixvibes support are planned but not available yet. With the addition of a 3rd party program www.gizmolabs.net the controller supports MIDI enabled systems,using MIDI or keyboard commands.
c) DJ Console - Works with VDJ, New DJ, Mixvibes, BPM Studio, TraktorDJ, OtsJuke, and with the included MIDI driver and keyboard mapper, works with ANY PROGRAM to emulate keystrokes
Advantage: DJ Console works with the most amount of programs.

The midi drivers written by Gizmolabs support 128 button combinations that really unlocks the possibilites of the controllers and work with DAC-2, XP10 and DMC-1

-- Portability --
a) DAC-2 - Desinged to be rack or table top mounted, will not fit in book bag however will fit in a rack bag without buying any additional rails.
b) XP10 - very portable, fits in a book bag, however I strongly suggest storing them in a Portable DVD Player Carrying Case Bag to protect from damage.
c) DJ Console - very portable, fits in a book bag, includes a sholder strap, inclues a plastic cover to protect sliders/knobs
Advantage: DJ Console


-- My opinion --
if you are into scratching or are converting over from vinyl, get the XP10
if you are a bedroom DJ or want to carry as little as possible, get the Hercules DJ Console
If you are a professional Mobile or Club DJ with existing rack mount equipment, get the DAC-2
If you are stupid like me, get all three hehehe


Note: There are additional controllers available but currently I do not have access to test them.

WirelessDJ
 

Posted Sun 14 Nov 04 @ 7:28 pm
Coming soon...

-- Sound Quality --
a) XP10 -
b) DJ Console -
Advantage:


-- Button Layout --
a) DAC-2 -
b) XP10 -
c) DJ Console -
Advantage:


-- Functionality --
a) DAC-2 -
b) XP10 -
c) DJ Console -
Advantage:
 

Posted Sun 14 Nov 04 @ 7:50 pm
Thanx a LOT for this thread Wireless DJ! ;)
Very nice and objective testing from your part...

:)
 

Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 3:55 pm
Yan-XPRO InfinityHonorary memberMember since 2003
could you please tell us which vdj version did you use ? (just to let know the users)
 

Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 7:56 pm
Version 2.05 and also tried 2.04

On another subject: Out of curiousity I called hercules tech support today to inquire about the driver problem and virtualDJ not recognizing the controller (see other post). During the conversation, it was determined that my unit is the original hercules DJ Console (The original ones had problems with the jog wheels). This would explain the jumpiness and inaccuracy that I experienced when I did the review above.

I am in the process of setting up an RMA and when the corrected unit comes in, I will re-test the jog wheels and post an update.

Note: The rest of the review should still be pretty much accurate.

WirelessDJ
 

Posted Mon 15 Nov 04 @ 9:35 pm
bagpussPRO InfinityMember since 2003
Just to say you did a good review,

But isn't it about time there was some new controllers being released?..

Personally i'm getting bored of the lack of options and little investment on these controllers.., but still time will prevail all...

Does anyone here know of any news regarding the hardware?.
 

Posted Wed 17 Nov 04 @ 12:18 pm
bagpussPRO InfinityMember since 2003
Just to say you did a good review,

But isn't it about time there was some new controllers being released?..

Personally i'm getting bored of the lack of options and little investment on these controllers.., but still time will prevail all...

Does anyone here know of any news regarding new hardware?.
 

Posted Wed 17 Nov 04 @ 12:18 pm
HomeboyPRO InfinitySupport ManagerMember since 2003
Does anyone here know of any news regarding new hardware?. Off Topic

But do you have any suggestions ?
Request for controllers
 

Posted Thu 18 Nov 04 @ 1:29 am
Hi all - Firstly, thanks to DJ Wireless for a great review - extremely helpful :)

After reading this review and many other posts I am still a little torn between the DMC-1, DAC-2, HDJC, XP10 and I guess the DM2!!! I was hopeing you guys could give me some input...

I used to DJ for years in clubs and still have my trusty DN-2000F and Numark mixer but these days mixing is more a hobby and that kit is a pain in the butt to setup etc - That said, I still want something with a certain level of quality and am looking to pick up an external controller I can mix MP3s (etc) with. I am hopeing to spend up to about $400.

I don't really get into scratching that much and I am leaning towards the HDJC because it has the mixer and decks in one - I am guessing I would need either 2 sound card outputs and an external mixer or use a PC cross fader with DMC-1 and DAC-2 - which is a bit of a turn-off.

My only real concern is the issue of latency on the buttons in the HDJC - I would like to understand if the play button latency on the HDJC would be similar to my Denon or should I expect more latency like poorer quality CD mixers???

All other comments and suggestions apprecaited. Thanks in advance :)
 

Posted Fri 31 Dec 04 @ 8:06 pm
BarglerPRO InfinityMember since 2004
Honestly, the fact that you are considering hardware like DMC, DM2 or XP10 tells me that you should not get the hercules console. I own one, and it isn't bad, but it the build quality points toward it's "toy" roots. Seeing as how you are a DJ with professional experience, I think the build quality would really drive you crazy.

Spend a bit more. You'll end up doing it anyway...just do it before you plunk down $250 for the Herc.
 

Posted Sun 02 Jan 05 @ 11:54 am
ProtoPRO InfinityMember since 2003
The best controller is the Soundgraph Dvinyl. Get one of those.
 

Posted Sun 02 Jan 05 @ 12:37 pm
Welll i have tested all three now and the review is excellent
Dac =pro
xp-10=plastic
Console=toy.cool toy
I think the technology is just getting started in this feild we should see a few new ones in 2005
Andre
 

Posted Sun 02 Jan 05 @ 1:52 pm
idj4uPRO InfinityMember since 2004
I've been using the Numark CDN88 for the last 4+ years. I'm thinking the XP10 would be closest to what I'm used to - I use the wheels on the 88 to assist with live beatmixing. It's also easier to map. (WirelessDJ - you forgot to mention that you can DISABLE that centre plate using mapping so it's harder to make mistakes "bumping it causing the player to STOP).

The DAC is easier to buy down here though.

Proto mention the Soundgraph Dvinyl controller. Will that work with Virtual DJ...?
 

Posted Sun 02 Jan 05 @ 4:53 pm
bedeh1Home userMember since 2004
Hi Guys - thanks for the feedback - am starting to think the DAC-2 could be more what I am after.

When you guys refer to the lack of build quality on the HDJC is that a general comment or are the specific buttons/sliders that don't have the same level of precision you get from professional kit??? I got the impression the sliders are fairly accurate and I not overly concerned about the scratching wheels - so I figure if the sliders are ok and the play/pause latency is tolerable then is should be ok...

Does the DAC-2 output directly to the mixer or do I need two sound card outputs from the PC to the plug into mixer???

I still really like the idea of pulling out one box (the HDJC), plugging it into the USB and away we go - but I can see that if the quality is too poor it would just be another dust collector (or ebay auction!!!)

Thanks again...
 

Posted Sun 02 Jan 05 @ 6:06 pm
>When you guys refer to the lack of build quality on the HDJC is that a general comment or are the specific buttons/sliders that don't have the same level of precision you get from professional kit???

the buttons are not that responsive. sometimes when I press start it does not start. it is a rubber button with conductive paint on the bottom -- not a real click switch


> Does the DAC-2 output directly to the mixer or do I need two sound card outputs from the PC to the plug into mixer???

The DAC-2 and DMC-1 have no sound card built in

 

Posted Sun 02 Jan 05 @ 6:41 pm
The controllers I own are the HDJ console and the DVinyl2020. If you ever used the DVinyl one, your HDJ console will stay in unused in a thick layer of dust!
Like Proto I like this controller a lot. I posted a review a while ago. Because Soundgraph (Manufacturer of the dvinyl2020) is almost broke (my own opinion) you can get this controller for a good price at the moment.
For the VDJ Team. Just buy the complete stock, knowledge and market from Soundgraph. Stick some VDJ labels on it and you have a proper table top (xp10) and a 19Inch controller.
Ewout
 

Posted Mon 03 Jan 05 @ 12:27 pm
i decided to get the XP10's but Atomix is completely sold out of this. Wireless,.. where did you get yours. there seem to be none available. Also, are you in the US?
 

Posted Mon 03 Jan 05 @ 2:06 pm
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