groovindj
OK but you're a relatively new contributor to the forum, and I honestly can't remember the last time I "bashed Behringer". Must've been before you began regularly posting.
Anyway, the key to improving sound quality - buy better kit :-)
Anyway, the key to improving sound quality - buy better kit :-)
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 6:54 pm
VDJ Ron
Very good sound can be fairly easily achieve nowadays..make sure your speakers are good quality and fully functional (the compression and main drivers must be perfect, if bass bins are used then they to must be suitable and fully working with the correct crossovers) plus a good quality source (mp3?..well a min. of 192kb/s). Balanced interconnects help. Almost any amp will do a good job if its matched correctly to the speakers and is reliable. The mixer..I like Peavey but Behringer should be OK although some might question their reliability.
Working in a live environment is not the same as HI-FI. There is a great deal of background noise and the pursuit of "perfection" is a waste of time and money.
Spend on 5 star (rated by users on sites like ZZsounds and Amazon) speakers...the key to good quality live work
In fact get everything you use 4 star + rated by lots of people..check all the reviews.
Working in a live environment is not the same as HI-FI. There is a great deal of background noise and the pursuit of "perfection" is a waste of time and money.
Spend on 5 star (rated by users on sites like ZZsounds and Amazon) speakers...the key to good quality live work
In fact get everything you use 4 star + rated by lots of people..check all the reviews.
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 7:05 pm
groovindj
bigron1 wrote :
the pursuit of "perfection" is a waste of time and money
Tell that to Tony Andrews :-)
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 7:13 pm
VDJ Ron
The music industry is overflowing with hype.
The latest and supposedly greatest often does not work too well.
It's all about parting us with the money in our pockets.
Even my humble MC3000 does a good job.
The latest and supposedly greatest often does not work too well.
It's all about parting us with the money in our pockets.
Even my humble MC3000 does a good job.
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 7:26 pm
VDJ Ron
To test your speakers it's not a bad idea to take the grills off and spread your fingers around the edges of the cone and then gently press hence moving the speaker diaphragm up and down (lay the speaker on its back). The voice coil moves in a thin circular channel and if it catches the the sides of the channel you will hear a noise. Noise means a bad driver. Silence is what you want !
It's a bit obvious if the compression drivers are blown..there will be no highs. That used to be a serious problem on Peavey speakers like the early Hysis 2 until they started fitting protection ( a car bulb..believe it or not !).
It's a bit obvious if the compression drivers are blown..there will be no highs. That used to be a serious problem on Peavey speakers like the early Hysis 2 until they started fitting protection ( a car bulb..believe it or not !).
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 8:31 pm
locoDog
bigron1 wrote :
...until they started fitting protection ( a car bulb..believe it or not !).
I've seen that before, a bar owner who thought he knew how to rig kept blowing the top end, for a while my old mate [been a musician and rig doctor since the '60s] was happy to take his money to fix stuff....until his workmanship came into question, since the bar guy wouldn't take instruction some lamps got put in place as a governor. [and no more pops since, but those lamps worked overtime]
Some venues need this type of set up; A guy, a dog & some dog food.
The guy uses to dog food to feed the dog, the dog is there to stop the guy touching the rig
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 9:14 pm
VDJ Ron
I would not have the 5 star rated PVX 15.
800w peak..400w program which probably means 200wrms.
OK so 15" but budget Peavey.
My 1012's are 2000w peak..1000w program and 500w rms with a good spl.
No contest.
Sorry.
Peavey can kick ass..but not with the PVX 15 speaker.
800w peak..400w program which probably means 200wrms.
OK so 15" but budget Peavey.
My 1012's are 2000w peak..1000w program and 500w rms with a good spl.
No contest.
Sorry.
Peavey can kick ass..but not with the PVX 15 speaker.
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 9:26 pm
VDJ Ron
The IPR2 2000 is good.
You have a mismatch.
Peavey engineers like us speaker wreckers to match rms values.
You have 200wrms speakers and a 600wrms amp - per channel.
Your speakers may be 8ohm but even then your a little overpowered with respect to the Peavey engineers I have spoken.
I'd recommend the Impulse® Series since their weatherproof..it does rain outside, and their powerful.
Soggy carpet is just horrible.
Your speakers are 8 ohm 200wrms being driven by Rated Watts 2ch x 8 ohms: 370 watts 20ms repetitive burst / 325 watts 1% THD / 300 watts 0.15% THD, both channels driven @ 1kHz.
I don't like the setup.
You have a mismatch.
Peavey engineers like us speaker wreckers to match rms values.
You have 200wrms speakers and a 600wrms amp - per channel.
Your speakers may be 8ohm but even then your a little overpowered with respect to the Peavey engineers I have spoken.
I'd recommend the Impulse® Series since their weatherproof..it does rain outside, and their powerful.
Soggy carpet is just horrible.
Your speakers are 8 ohm 200wrms being driven by Rated Watts 2ch x 8 ohms: 370 watts 20ms repetitive burst / 325 watts 1% THD / 300 watts 0.15% THD, both channels driven @ 1kHz.
I don't like the setup.
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 9:45 pm
VDJ Ron
300wrms 8 ohms speakers or 500wrms 4 ohm would be OK...in the eyes of the UK Peavey engineers (deceased but that's another story) with whom I have spoken.
I suppose nowadays you want everything at 500wrms and 8 ohm. That takes a powerful amp.
The IPR2™ 3000 gives 525wrms per channel at 8 ohm.
Hm.. you not going to like what I'm saying.
I might owe Groovin an apology..but in my defense I did not know that until I looked at the pa specs.
I suppose nowadays you want everything at 500wrms and 8 ohm. That takes a powerful amp.
The IPR2™ 3000 gives 525wrms per channel at 8 ohm.
Hm.. you not going to like what I'm saying.
I might owe Groovin an apology..but in my defense I did not know that until I looked at the pa specs.
Posted Tue 02 May 17 @ 10:40 pm
VDJ Ron
The manufacturers are responsible for causing a great deal of confusion. They use exaggeration and misinformation to sell their products.
With respect to the Peavey pvx 15 where has the rms or continuous rating gone?
Locodog has old school bass bins, the Peavey 215xt. Each contains two 15" 8 ohm 350wrms Black Widow drivers. That is 700wrms per bass bin, or 1400w program, or 2800w peak. These figures represent real power.
Behringer are masters of the art of deception, I bought an inuke3000 which is a good amp but it was hard work trying to figure out its real power (@600wrms per channel at 4 ohm). Here is a link which once led to a true description of this amps power..only Behringer have removed it! They, like the other manufacturers prefer their fantasy numbers. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/213071-behringer-inuke-nu3000-measurements-2.html
With respect to the Peavey pvx 15 where has the rms or continuous rating gone?
Locodog has old school bass bins, the Peavey 215xt. Each contains two 15" 8 ohm 350wrms Black Widow drivers. That is 700wrms per bass bin, or 1400w program, or 2800w peak. These figures represent real power.
Behringer are masters of the art of deception, I bought an inuke3000 which is a good amp but it was hard work trying to figure out its real power (@600wrms per channel at 4 ohm). Here is a link which once led to a true description of this amps power..only Behringer have removed it! They, like the other manufacturers prefer their fantasy numbers. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/213071-behringer-inuke-nu3000-measurements-2.html
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 12:09 pm
kradcliffe
Did we not discuss all this a couple of months ago on another thread?
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 12:39 pm
sureview
the week link here has got to be the headphone out on the laptop, which is not a very high quality audio device, really just designed to drive a pair of headphones on a consumer grade device, sharing the same power source as the other electrically noisy components in the computer
buy a mixer with internal soundcard or a separate usb soundcard for starters and not an ebay £4.95 one at that, its your main audio out for gods sake , £200 ish should get you reasonable quality
buy a mixer with internal soundcard or a separate usb soundcard for starters and not an ebay £4.95 one at that, its your main audio out for gods sake , £200 ish should get you reasonable quality
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 12:43 pm
DJ Varium
Christ, what a complete faff. I'm so glad that active speakers are so good these days. Don't get me wrong, i used to run a pair of dynacords with a powermate 1000 15 years ago, but would not dream of running a passive system these days.
Not sure any of this is helping the OP though. Maybe he hasn't got the best system in the world, but what he has shouldn't sound crap. I have some cheap Alto TX12's as back up speakers. they are mostly set up in my house for practice, but it is quite difficult to tell the difference in sound quality between them and my Yamaha gig speakers which cost four times the price.
Coming out of the headphone socket is not great in terms of the line level or interference, but sound quality wise it wont actually make a massive difference.
If it was me, I would borrow some stuff from someone and just try changing each item so by process of elimination you can see what the problem is. Firstly, borrow some different speakers, hook them up and see if its any better. Then try a different sound card. You could always buy one, try it and send it back if needs be.
Not sure any of this is helping the OP though. Maybe he hasn't got the best system in the world, but what he has shouldn't sound crap. I have some cheap Alto TX12's as back up speakers. they are mostly set up in my house for practice, but it is quite difficult to tell the difference in sound quality between them and my Yamaha gig speakers which cost four times the price.
Coming out of the headphone socket is not great in terms of the line level or interference, but sound quality wise it wont actually make a massive difference.
If it was me, I would borrow some stuff from someone and just try changing each item so by process of elimination you can see what the problem is. Firstly, borrow some different speakers, hook them up and see if its any better. Then try a different sound card. You could always buy one, try it and send it back if needs be.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 12:43 pm
VDJ Ron
+1 Firstly, borrow some different speakers,
The pvx 15 are budget speakers.
200wrms is only suitable for very small venues.
If he got some second hand Impulse1012's or 1015's at 4 ohm in full working order his system would sound excellent. The Peavey UL 12's & 15's at 4 ohm would also be good. He'd just move up a whole class..and be able to live alongside the bands. The thing is 4 ohm speakers would get the best out of his current amp, which is ok.
I would not dream of using active speakers while I can buy a Class D amplifier. Having to run both a power and audio signal cable to a speaker would restrict my ability to position speakers which can be very important when doing karaoke. I've got a connector so I can join two speaker leads enabling remote positioning.
This guy has a good £500 amp at the heart of his system,
The pvx 15 are budget speakers.
200wrms is only suitable for very small venues.
If he got some second hand Impulse1012's or 1015's at 4 ohm in full working order his system would sound excellent. The Peavey UL 12's & 15's at 4 ohm would also be good. He'd just move up a whole class..and be able to live alongside the bands. The thing is 4 ohm speakers would get the best out of his current amp, which is ok.
I would not dream of using active speakers while I can buy a Class D amplifier. Having to run both a power and audio signal cable to a speaker would restrict my ability to position speakers which can be very important when doing karaoke. I've got a connector so I can join two speaker leads enabling remote positioning.
This guy has a good £500 amp at the heart of his system,
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 1:01 pm
DJ Varium
bigron1 wrote :
If he got some second hand Impulse1012's or 1015's at 4 ohm in full working order his system would sound excellent.
That is a bit of an assumption though, his issue may be else where, like his sound output, or mixer, or anything. So i think maybe he wants to know before he starts buying new speakers.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 1:06 pm
VDJ Ron
If everything works correctly in his system it's still governed by budget speakers. Yes there may be other problems but I think he would find it a vast improvement.
Obviously a suitable sound card or controller would help.
There is a very good chance he can pick up quality passive speakers cheap since people are buying active speakers. Most are unaware of class d amplification..what I mean is you can pick an amp up with one finger, and it's small.
Obviously a suitable sound card or controller would help.
There is a very good chance he can pick up quality passive speakers cheap since people are buying active speakers. Most are unaware of class d amplification..what I mean is you can pick an amp up with one finger, and it's small.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 1:14 pm
DJ Varium
Yeah, but my Alto's are budget speakers, and they sound almost a good as my proper pro ones. Now, is that because they just happen to be pretty good cheap speakers, or is it because everything in the signal chain before the speakers is high end? I'm not sure what the answer is to that.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 1:27 pm
VDJ Ron
You said almost as good.
Anyway the thing is to have enough power to deal with most venues..200wrms is no were near good enough for a large venue, he'll just sound terrible, then try jacking the volume, and then damage his speakers which are only ok for a small venue.
What model of Alto's do you use..I'd like to see the specs?
Anyway the thing is to have enough power to deal with most venues..200wrms is no were near good enough for a large venue, he'll just sound terrible, then try jacking the volume, and then damage his speakers which are only ok for a small venue.
What model of Alto's do you use..I'd like to see the specs?
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 1:39 pm
DJ Varium
bigron1 wrote :
You said almost as good
Very true, but the difference is not what you would expect. And I am assuming the OP's sound issue is much more severe from his post.
I have the Alto TX12's as my backup speakers. They are about 5 years old.
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 1:45 pm
VDJ Ron
TX12
600-Watt 12-Inch 2-Way Active Loudspeaker
600 Watts peak / 300 Watts continuous power
Efficient Class-D power amp, bi-amplified
12” LF woofer with 2” voice coil
1” neodymium HF compression driver with 1” voice coil
Balanced XLR Combo Mic/Line Input and Link Output
Precision electronic crossover
Onboard Contour control
Integrated analog limiter and overload protection circuitry
Lightweight, portable design
Integrated 36mm speaker pole socket
Main or wedge monitor operation
Dimensions (HxWxD): 23.9" x 14.9" x 13.2" / 607 x 380 x 337mm
Net weight: 30.31 lbs / 13.75kg
Designed in the USA
Interesting..I suspect the 300w continuous may mean rms..but how would you know?
Can you do a large hall with them?
Posted Wed 03 May 17 @ 1:53 pm
