DJ_Cypher
Who mix drum 'n bass with atomix ??
Posted Fri 16 May 03 @ 8:47 pm
DJ Walkers
oh no not this again :P TRANCE is the music to mix ;)
(joke between me and cypher)
(joke between me and cypher)
Posted Fri 16 May 03 @ 9:16 pm
jukesy
4/4 house/trance is sooo easy.
Although I do like to listen to the odd oldskool trance track,
eg, Cafe Del Mar, Solar Stone, Lucid, York, Yomanda etc....
Its pretty boring to mix.
I do a fair bit of drum and bass mixing in my radio shows/sets.
Its more challenging as the beats dont match up like they do for house, and you cant use the magic beat match.
Atomix is an extremely powerful tool and people forget this. You can mix any style of music you want with it just like real decks. (try using a skin without visuals).
Jukesy
Although I do like to listen to the odd oldskool trance track,
eg, Cafe Del Mar, Solar Stone, Lucid, York, Yomanda etc....
Its pretty boring to mix.
I do a fair bit of drum and bass mixing in my radio shows/sets.
Its more challenging as the beats dont match up like they do for house, and you cant use the magic beat match.
Atomix is an extremely powerful tool and people forget this. You can mix any style of music you want with it just like real decks. (try using a skin without visuals).
Jukesy
Posted Sat 17 May 03 @ 2:46 pm
DJ_Cypher
Ok Thanks jukesy any tip to mix drum 'n bass well ? i mixed with no auto tempo i do it all manual, but some times isn't good. so... you have any tip ??
Posted Sat 17 May 03 @ 8:25 pm
Phenryll
It's too hard to mix drum n bass. That's very different of techno.
Posted Sat 17 May 03 @ 8:44 pm
jukesy
practicing and listening to as much drum and bass as possible are the main tips I can give. (but only because the more you practice/listen the easier it will be for you to hear a pattern in the tune - see description below)
Also dont rely on the visuals so much. Using Headphones is the most important thing you can do.
All music is made up of repetitive loops and patterns. For example most sequencers and music tools for music creation such as Acid Pro. fruityloops etc.. use loops to create a final song.
These patterns, the majority of the time, stay the same length for the whole tune. ie the tempo of the tune does not change. (unless you are trying to mix with Aphex Twin or other artists that bend the rules of music making)
The basis of mixing two tunes together is matching these pattern lengths.
Every song has a tempo, beats and bars. All you have to do is work out (by listening to the tune) the length of the pattern. Once you have the length of one pattern for one tune you need to match the second tune's pattern to the same length.
A pattern is basically when some part of the music repeats itself. (it can be the bass drum, a symbol clash, the bass line or anything). You will find on drum and bass tracks that if you count to four and start over again and match your count of four to the pattern you would count around 40 -50 bars. That is 160 -180 bpm. You will also find that on each 2nd and fourth beat there will be a clean symbol/snare clash for drum and bass. Drum and bass music is basically a 4 beats per bar - 4 bars per pattern house tune but speeded up to 180 bpm (ie Happy Hardcore). By removing the bass drum every other beat and by adding in some extra snares/symbols etc... you end up with a drum and bass beat.
Similarly by removing more beats than you add you end up with a hip -hop beat. have a listen to the pattern length of hip hop tracks and take note of the snare clashes. Hip -hop is nearly identical to drum and bass with certain beats/symbols/snares removed.
Basically what I am trying to say is that it is possible to mix any two tunes together from any different genre. All you have to do is get the two tunes patterns the right length. Of course by doing this you may end up with one song up at a ridiculiously fast or slow pitch, but with the pitch enable this dosent really matter as long as it sounds good.
Once you are familiar with the patterns in drum and bass, the visuals become usefull again as you should be able to see now which beats should be beat matched. (mainly the first beat on your count of four every count). By ensuring that the first beats of your patterns are matched and continue to be matched every four bars/repetition of pattern then your mix will sound in time and match. ALWAYS MATCH THE START OF A PATTERN OF ONE TUNE TO THE START OF A PATTERN OF ANOTHER otherwise you will end up with breaks/vocals/melodies/tones all in the wrong place and the mix wil sound terrible.
Hope this has all helped
sorry its so long
Jukesy
Also dont rely on the visuals so much. Using Headphones is the most important thing you can do.
All music is made up of repetitive loops and patterns. For example most sequencers and music tools for music creation such as Acid Pro. fruityloops etc.. use loops to create a final song.
These patterns, the majority of the time, stay the same length for the whole tune. ie the tempo of the tune does not change. (unless you are trying to mix with Aphex Twin or other artists that bend the rules of music making)
The basis of mixing two tunes together is matching these pattern lengths.
Every song has a tempo, beats and bars. All you have to do is work out (by listening to the tune) the length of the pattern. Once you have the length of one pattern for one tune you need to match the second tune's pattern to the same length.
A pattern is basically when some part of the music repeats itself. (it can be the bass drum, a symbol clash, the bass line or anything). You will find on drum and bass tracks that if you count to four and start over again and match your count of four to the pattern you would count around 40 -50 bars. That is 160 -180 bpm. You will also find that on each 2nd and fourth beat there will be a clean symbol/snare clash for drum and bass. Drum and bass music is basically a 4 beats per bar - 4 bars per pattern house tune but speeded up to 180 bpm (ie Happy Hardcore). By removing the bass drum every other beat and by adding in some extra snares/symbols etc... you end up with a drum and bass beat.
Similarly by removing more beats than you add you end up with a hip -hop beat. have a listen to the pattern length of hip hop tracks and take note of the snare clashes. Hip -hop is nearly identical to drum and bass with certain beats/symbols/snares removed.
Basically what I am trying to say is that it is possible to mix any two tunes together from any different genre. All you have to do is get the two tunes patterns the right length. Of course by doing this you may end up with one song up at a ridiculiously fast or slow pitch, but with the pitch enable this dosent really matter as long as it sounds good.
Once you are familiar with the patterns in drum and bass, the visuals become usefull again as you should be able to see now which beats should be beat matched. (mainly the first beat on your count of four every count). By ensuring that the first beats of your patterns are matched and continue to be matched every four bars/repetition of pattern then your mix will sound in time and match. ALWAYS MATCH THE START OF A PATTERN OF ONE TUNE TO THE START OF A PATTERN OF ANOTHER otherwise you will end up with breaks/vocals/melodies/tones all in the wrong place and the mix wil sound terrible.
Hope this has all helped
sorry its so long
Jukesy
Posted Sat 17 May 03 @ 9:00 pm
ShaggyT
jukesy,
Wow, someone has actually posted something useful here.
Very good tips for mixing. Thanx.
Wow, someone has actually posted something useful here.
Very good tips for mixing. Thanx.
Posted Mon 19 May 03 @ 8:37 am
DJ_Cypher
Yeah that are tips, thanks Jukesy.
Posted Mon 19 May 03 @ 4:25 pm
samoo
1st Hi
2nd if you like to learn verry good about mixing with bass and drums.
you have 1st to listen verry good to "free style"
the free style make your ears verry sensative with the rythem
second when you are listen to the songs or another type of songs, count on your fingers tell 4 :
1- bass
2- drums
3- bass
4- drums
when you want to start mixing put the cue of player (B) @ the bass, and play with the pitch when the player (A) is at the 4- drums and it will begain at the 1- bass play the player (B) " BUT YOU MUST PLAY WITH THE PITCH BEFORE PLAY THE PLAYER (B).
that's all about mixing with bass and drums
sorry about my english
regards
D.J Samo from Lebanon.
2nd if you like to learn verry good about mixing with bass and drums.
you have 1st to listen verry good to "free style"
the free style make your ears verry sensative with the rythem
second when you are listen to the songs or another type of songs, count on your fingers tell 4 :
1- bass
2- drums
3- bass
4- drums
when you want to start mixing put the cue of player (B) @ the bass, and play with the pitch when the player (A) is at the 4- drums and it will begain at the 1- bass play the player (B) " BUT YOU MUST PLAY WITH THE PITCH BEFORE PLAY THE PLAYER (B).
that's all about mixing with bass and drums
sorry about my english
regards
D.J Samo from Lebanon.
Posted Thu 12 Jun 03 @ 8:19 pm
marcus f
Hi, in response to your mixing d'n'b try mixing off the top end rather than the kick drums, most producers including myself try to use a standard 4/4 beat on the high hats, you need to liten catefully for these as thay are often overpowerd by the snares, but thats a method i use for my dj school.
Posted Mon 16 Jun 03 @ 9:49 pm
sketch
I'm currently only mixing drum & bass, as said above trance and house get to boring and theres only so muchs cutting and tweaking you can do.
I completly agree with juksy in that if you get away from 4:4, you have to look at reoccuring beats in the two tunes and deduce where they match. It can be helpful on when learning and on difficult tunes to set the correct bpm's, by setting the tune +-0% and matching in a clean house track (which atomix does set correct bpm). You can then set the bpm of the d&b tune from this.
I don't need to set bpm's at all any more, but as juksey said you have to use your ears and cue as well. In some tune the patterns maybe in sync on the screen, but you might have to knock it a bit of sync to sound correct.
Also I'm getting sweet at mixing between atomix and the decks becuase of this, its becoming minimal hassle. It's great fun working with somebody else on the decks to, and it add a whole new dimension.
Dan
I completly agree with juksy in that if you get away from 4:4, you have to look at reoccuring beats in the two tunes and deduce where they match. It can be helpful on when learning and on difficult tunes to set the correct bpm's, by setting the tune +-0% and matching in a clean house track (which atomix does set correct bpm). You can then set the bpm of the d&b tune from this.
I don't need to set bpm's at all any more, but as juksey said you have to use your ears and cue as well. In some tune the patterns maybe in sync on the screen, but you might have to knock it a bit of sync to sound correct.
Also I'm getting sweet at mixing between atomix and the decks becuase of this, its becoming minimal hassle. It's great fun working with somebody else on the decks to, and it add a whole new dimension.
Dan
Posted Thu 19 Jun 03 @ 7:20 pm
jukesy
@marcus F
Thats very good advise. You will find that the snares/hats/crashes usually occour on the 2nd and 4th beat if you count a 4/4 beat at say 180bpm and @ sketch:
Mixing out of decks to atomix is good practice but do you find it harder to go from atomix to decks?
Thats very good advise. You will find that the snares/hats/crashes usually occour on the 2nd and 4th beat if you count a 4/4 beat at say 180bpm and @ sketch:
Mixing out of decks to atomix is good practice but do you find it harder to go from atomix to decks?
Posted Sun 22 Jun 03 @ 2:42 am
djkandie
i use atomix to mix dnb..its hard to get used to but the way that i do it is just like on decks as far as beat matching
Posted Mon 23 Jun 03 @ 4:09 am
sketch
@juksey - I don't personally find it a problem like that, however my mate who is a pure vinylist says he finds it more harder to mix out of atomix. But hey if you loose it you got a break down on both if you need it, mix that with a kaoss pad and some scratching and we do some wicked change overs.
Dan
Dan
Posted Mon 23 Jun 03 @ 9:57 pm
sketch
Sorry thought I'd raise another point also. It seems that many people rely to much on the visuals and not so much on sound itself.
This is where atomix differs from the decks most, other than that the principles are the same. This is perhaps where the pureists have a problem with atomix, and why people complain of inproper beat syncing etc.
It may be all very well for the casual user having a play, but to the serious user or proffesional being able to monitor is essential. An anology to explain this is that the visuals should mearly act as a cue and not as the script itself. If people start to actually listen to the music itself then their skill will improve no doubt.
I really don't agree with any comments saying that drum & bass or any other non 4:4 music should be avoided. Sure its harder to mix, but its also harder on the decks. The visuals help cue you but remember use you ears!
I would call this relying soley on the visual, 'easy mix syndrome' or ESM. I feel into this trap for a bit and things got very boring and uninspired.
Once I got out things started to get a lot more interesting. Since my recovery from ESM my overall ability has improved dramtically not only on atomix, but the decks as well.
Dan
This is where atomix differs from the decks most, other than that the principles are the same. This is perhaps where the pureists have a problem with atomix, and why people complain of inproper beat syncing etc.
It may be all very well for the casual user having a play, but to the serious user or proffesional being able to monitor is essential. An anology to explain this is that the visuals should mearly act as a cue and not as the script itself. If people start to actually listen to the music itself then their skill will improve no doubt.
I really don't agree with any comments saying that drum & bass or any other non 4:4 music should be avoided. Sure its harder to mix, but its also harder on the decks. The visuals help cue you but remember use you ears!
I would call this relying soley on the visual, 'easy mix syndrome' or ESM. I feel into this trap for a bit and things got very boring and uninspired.
Once I got out things started to get a lot more interesting. Since my recovery from ESM my overall ability has improved dramtically not only on atomix, but the decks as well.
Dan
Posted Mon 23 Jun 03 @ 10:17 pm