burnyabad
I love Virtual DJ.. Best ever. Whenever a problem occurs, the devs jump right in and attempt to fix the problem.
Posted Mon 18 Feb 19 @ 10:24 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
Another method :
deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/beta-test-deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/
https://deltaw.org/
Virtual DJ, BIT perfect between original file and the recorded file inside VDJ, without effects, without autogain and with PITCH quality 3 in settings :
The proof :
Another method :
deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/beta-test-deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/
https://deltaw.org/
Virtual DJ, BIT perfect between original file and the recorded file inside VDJ, without effects, without autogain and with PITCH quality 3 in settings :
The proof :
Posted Wed 20 Feb 19 @ 7:52 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
Another method :
deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/beta-test-deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/
https://deltaw.org/
Virtual DJ, BIT perfect between original file and the recorded file inside VDJ, without effects, without autogain and with PITCH quality 3 in settings :
The proof :
VDJ 100% BITPERFECT :
Rekordbox Export mode: Phase problem / PPM problem / gain problem / and 0.09% BITPERFECT
not better in Performance mode, with several Headroom presets and Autogain disabled :
DENON ENGINE PRIME (PC 1.2.2 /MAC 1.2.3) : not Bit perfect too...
Another method :
deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/beta-test-deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/
https://deltaw.org/
Virtual DJ, BIT perfect between original file and the recorded file inside VDJ, without effects, without autogain and with PITCH quality 3 in settings :
The proof :
VDJ 100% BITPERFECT :
Rekordbox Export mode: Phase problem / PPM problem / gain problem / and 0.09% BITPERFECT
not better in Performance mode, with several Headroom presets and Autogain disabled :
DENON ENGINE PRIME (PC 1.2.2 /MAC 1.2.3) : not Bit perfect too...
Posted Wed 20 Feb 19 @ 11:08 pm
locoDog
Why is rekordbox phase inverted?
Posted Wed 20 Feb 19 @ 11:26 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
Yes, it's very strange : Phase inverted in Rekordbox 5.4.3/5.4.4
I will try again but i had phase inverted in Export mode and Performance mode....and a PPM problem
I will do another check with another file :)
Yes, it's very strange : Phase inverted in Rekordbox 5.4.3/5.4.4
I will try again but i had phase inverted in Export mode and Performance mode....and a PPM problem
I will do another check with another file :)
Posted Thu 21 Feb 19 @ 8:10 am
locoDog
Also rekordbox & prime are set at +2dB.
I don't fully understand the test, but if you're going to post, let's compare apples to apples.
I don't fully understand the test, but if you're going to post, let's compare apples to apples.
Posted Thu 21 Feb 19 @ 8:17 am
olivier REMUX
Hi,
-> Adion : It's not nice( :) ) to close the another post, that was more developped, cleaner about changes an Volume/gain.
->No Rekordbox & prime at set to 0dB or default for this test, but internal AUDIO engine of those software change the Gain even with AUTO-GAIN off, or no auto gain option available, or volume Knob available....
So I, copy / past new results (Results at 21/02/2019, may change with future Software updates...)
:
First VDJ 8.3 : BIT PERFECT, and no jitter or clock drift, no internal gain/volume change :
Denon engine prime 1.2.2/1.2.3 : This Software change the gain and volume of the original audio[/B :
The clock drift is good like VDJ
Traktor 3 pro trial : Even at 0dB gain and auto gain on off, and no limiter, the Traktor audio engine, change the Gain/volume (even at 0dB setting in the Software) and the clock drift (6.48 ppm) and phase :
Serato DJ lite (same engine that Serato) : Even at 0dB gain and auto gain on off, and no limiter, the Serato audio engine, change the volume and the clock drift (3.53 ppm) and phase :
Rekordbox Export mode : the software change the original gain/volume and the clock drift (7.94 ppm)and phase (Phase problem) :
Rekordbox Performance mode : The record was made with internal record mode in .wav (lossless) at 16/44.1 same as original, with no auto gain option and no Headroom :
-> the software as aPPM (7.65 ppm) clock problem, big phase problem, and modify the gain of the original audio :
CONCLUSION :
VIRTUAL DJ 8.3 :
DATE : 21/02/2019 -> only Software that respect the gain/volume/ phase/ jitter / clock / bit, of a track, when no effects are applied in Wasapi/ASIO mode or on OSX (default OSX core AUDIO, bit perfect).
And VIRTUALDJ and ENGINE PRIME, have the best Clock drift. (No jitter)
Best AUDIO-engine of the DJ software Market
-> Adion : It's not nice( :) ) to close the another post, that was more developped, cleaner about changes an Volume/gain.
locodog wrote :
Also rekordbox & prime are set at +2dB.
I don't fully understand the test, but if you're going to post, let's compare apples to apples.
I don't fully understand the test, but if you're going to post, let's compare apples to apples.
->No Rekordbox & prime at set to 0dB or default for this test, but internal AUDIO engine of those software change the Gain even with AUTO-GAIN off, or no auto gain option available, or volume Knob available....
So I, copy / past new results (Results at 21/02/2019, may change with future Software updates...)
:
First VDJ 8.3 : BIT PERFECT, and no jitter or clock drift, no internal gain/volume change :
Denon engine prime 1.2.2/1.2.3 : This Software change the gain and volume of the original audio[/B :
The clock drift is good like VDJ
Traktor 3 pro trial : Even at 0dB gain and auto gain on off, and no limiter, the Traktor audio engine, change the Gain/volume (even at 0dB setting in the Software) and the clock drift (6.48 ppm) and phase :
Serato DJ lite (same engine that Serato) : Even at 0dB gain and auto gain on off, and no limiter, the Serato audio engine, change the volume and the clock drift (3.53 ppm) and phase :
Rekordbox Export mode : the software change the original gain/volume and the clock drift (7.94 ppm)and phase (Phase problem) :
Rekordbox Performance mode : The record was made with internal record mode in .wav (lossless) at 16/44.1 same as original, with no auto gain option and no Headroom :
-> the software as aPPM (7.65 ppm) clock problem, big phase problem, and modify the gain of the original audio :
CONCLUSION :
VIRTUAL DJ 8.3 :
DATE : 21/02/2019 -> only Software that respect the gain/volume/ phase/ jitter / clock / bit, of a track, when no effects are applied in Wasapi/ASIO mode or on OSX (default OSX core AUDIO, bit perfect).
And VIRTUALDJ and ENGINE PRIME, have the best Clock drift. (No jitter)
Best AUDIO-engine of the DJ software Market
Posted Thu 21 Feb 19 @ 12:06 pm
olivier REMUX
A precision :
These tests were done with OSX and core audio bit perfect; and the capture software (https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack) also perfect bit to record a wav. Because neither VB HIFI cable nor Voicemeter virtual asio are 100% perfect bit with Windows, but only 25% after analysis. Then the samples (original and recorded with audiohijack) are automatically aligned in the analysis software (Delta Wav - https://deltaw.org/) in a window of 20 or 60 sec to avoid bit shifts between the beginning and the end of the sample between the two lossless .wav at same 16 / 44.1 resolution :) So OSX for the comparative records and WIN10 for the comparison software Delta Wav - https://deltaw.org/.
Otherwise Replay music 8 on Windows 10, with direct APPS recording feature, is another solution because tested BIT perfect; also. On the other hand other software tests with "Wasapi loopback" like Audacity, are not perfect BIT. (after analysis with Delta Wav).
But the best for the perfect BIT in Shared mode and exclusive mode is the MacOSX Core Audio with audiohijack (https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack). More flexible and less complicated than Wasapi / ASIO .......
These tests were done with OSX and core audio bit perfect; and the capture software (https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack) also perfect bit to record a wav. Because neither VB HIFI cable nor Voicemeter virtual asio are 100% perfect bit with Windows, but only 25% after analysis. Then the samples (original and recorded with audiohijack) are automatically aligned in the analysis software (Delta Wav - https://deltaw.org/) in a window of 20 or 60 sec to avoid bit shifts between the beginning and the end of the sample between the two lossless .wav at same 16 / 44.1 resolution :) So OSX for the comparative records and WIN10 for the comparison software Delta Wav - https://deltaw.org/.
Otherwise Replay music 8 on Windows 10, with direct APPS recording feature, is another solution because tested BIT perfect; also. On the other hand other software tests with "Wasapi loopback" like Audacity, are not perfect BIT. (after analysis with Delta Wav).
But the best for the perfect BIT in Shared mode and exclusive mode is the MacOSX Core Audio with audiohijack (https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack). More flexible and less complicated than Wasapi / ASIO .......
Posted Sat 23 Feb 19 @ 6:15 am
mitchiemasha
Interesting
Posted Sat 23 Feb 19 @ 1:49 pm
olivier REMUX
Hi,
More tests : (with new https://deltaw.org/, software that compare 2 wav with auto sample alignement)
Original file : 60s - 16/44.1
OSX :
Core Audio OSX shared mode or exclusive : 100% BIT PERFECT
Audio HI JACK : BIT PERFECT in 32 bits or 16 bits recording (https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/)
Loopback virtual cable : BIT PERFECT (https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/)
System player audio : Bit perfect
Virtual DJ 8.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording :
BIT PERFECT no jitter
Virtual DJ 8.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
BIT PERFECT no jitter / with Audacity 32/24 bits recording of 16bits original file.
Rekordbox 5.4.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Serato lite 1.1 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Traktor 3.1 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase problem/volume change problem
Engine 1.2.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem - clock ok
DJAY PRO 2 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem -
WIN 10 :
WIN10 : 99.8% BIT PERFECT with shared mode Wasapi
Voicemeter Virtual ASIO or Wasapi : 99% BIT PERFECT with Voicemeter Banana recording in 32/24 bits of a 16 bits Files. The 16 bits recording isn't bit perfect
(https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/banana.htm)
"Windows Wasapi loopback" with audacity : not perfect - gain and phase problems (The windows Wasapi loopback isn't BIT perfect)
Foobar WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0dB - no replay gain ) + Voicemeter Bana recording virtual ASIO : 99.8 BIT PERFECT no jitter
Virtual DJ 8.3 WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + Voicemeter Bana recording virtual ASIO : 99.8 BIT PERFECT no jitter
Virtual DJ 8.3 WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits:
99.8% BIT PERFECT no jitter / with Audacity 32/24 bits recording of 16bits original file.
Rekordbox 5.4.3 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) internal recording at any levels or with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Serato lite 1.1 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) internal recording at any levels or with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Traktor 3.1 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) internal recording at any levels or with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase problem/volume change problem
Engine 1.2.2 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) i with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem - clock ok
DJAY PRO WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem
More tests : (with new https://deltaw.org/, software that compare 2 wav with auto sample alignement)
Original file : 60s - 16/44.1
OSX :
Core Audio OSX shared mode or exclusive : 100% BIT PERFECT
Audio HI JACK : BIT PERFECT in 32 bits or 16 bits recording (https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/)
Loopback virtual cable : BIT PERFECT (https://rogueamoeba.com/loopback/)
System player audio : Bit perfect
Virtual DJ 8.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording :
BIT PERFECT no jitter
Virtual DJ 8.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
BIT PERFECT no jitter / with Audacity 32/24 bits recording of 16bits original file.
Rekordbox 5.4.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Serato lite 1.1 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Traktor 3.1 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase problem/volume change problem
Engine 1.2.3 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem - clock ok
DJAY PRO 2 OSX (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) + AUDIO HI JACK recording or Loopback virtualcable + Audacity :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem -
WIN 10 :
WIN10 : 99.8% BIT PERFECT with shared mode Wasapi
Voicemeter Virtual ASIO or Wasapi : 99% BIT PERFECT with Voicemeter Banana recording in 32/24 bits of a 16 bits Files. The 16 bits recording isn't bit perfect
(https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/banana.htm)
"Windows Wasapi loopback" with audacity : not perfect - gain and phase problems (The windows Wasapi loopback isn't BIT perfect)
Foobar WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0dB - no replay gain ) + Voicemeter Bana recording virtual ASIO : 99.8 BIT PERFECT no jitter
Virtual DJ 8.3 WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + Voicemeter Bana recording virtual ASIO : 99.8 BIT PERFECT no jitter
Virtual DJ 8.3 WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0dB - autogain off) + Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits:
99.8% BIT PERFECT no jitter / with Audacity 32/24 bits recording of 16bits original file.
Rekordbox 5.4.3 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) internal recording at any levels or with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Serato lite 1.1 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) internal recording at any levels or with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase- problem/volume change problem
Traktor 3.1 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) internal recording at any levels or with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / Clock jitter problem/ phase problem/volume change problem
Engine 1.2.2 Win 10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) i with Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem - clock ok
DJAY PRO WIN10 (Without effect - gain 0 dB - autogain off) Voicemeter virtual asio or Virtual Wasapi + Audacity recording 32/24 bits :
No BIT perfect / phase problem/volume change problem
Posted Mon 25 Feb 19 @ 12:30 pm
olivier REMUX
Posted Sat 09 Mar 19 @ 11:54 pm
mr.ZvooK
olivierbergman wrote :
loved their official response and most not even that interesting and, as always, for pioneer simply close they disliked the subject
Selected as best answer Posted Sun 10 Mar 19 @ 7:50 am
olivier REMUX
mr.ZvooK wrote :
loved their official response and most not even that interesting and, as always, for pioneer simply close they disliked the subject
olivierbergman wrote :
loved their official response and most not even that interesting and, as always, for pioneer simply close they disliked the subject
Yes, they close the subject. I was ready to help Pioneer to fix and improve audio issues. And no answer from private support... (ticket open)
Rekordbox works at best with :
Internal mode : -6dB of Headroom if the master volume KNOB is at MAXIMUM
External mode : +6db Headroom if the master volume KNOB is at MAXIMUM
But still PHASE changes problems with Audio engine.
It would not difficult to fix that, seems to Rekordbox is developped with JUCE :
https://juce.com/discover
Posted Sun 17 Mar 19 @ 8:51 am
mr.ZvooK
olivierbergman wrote :
Yes, they close the subject. I was ready to help Pioneer to fix and improve audio issues. And no answer from private support... (ticket open)
Rekordbox works at best with :
Internal mode : -6dB of Headroom if the master volume KNOB is at MAXIMUM
External mode : +6db Headroom if the master volume KNOB is at MAXIMUM
But still PHASE changes problems with Audio engine.
It would not difficult to fix that, seems to Rekordbox is developped with JUCE :
https://juce.com/discover
mr.ZvooK wrote :
loved their official response and most not even that interesting and, as always, for pioneer simply close they disliked the subject
olivierbergman wrote :
loved their official response and most not even that interesting and, as always, for pioneer simply close they disliked the subject
Yes, they close the subject. I was ready to help Pioneer to fix and improve audio issues. And no answer from private support... (ticket open)
Rekordbox works at best with :
Internal mode : -6dB of Headroom if the master volume KNOB is at MAXIMUM
External mode : +6db Headroom if the master volume KNOB is at MAXIMUM
But still PHASE changes problems with Audio engine.
It would not difficult to fix that, seems to Rekordbox is developped with JUCE :
https://juce.com/discover
Hi, do you have the discussion with "special support" from Pioneer ?
Posted Wed 20 May 20 @ 6:16 pm
francedisio
Dj C-Mux wrote :
A precision :
These tests were done with OSX and core audio bit perfect ....
These tests were done with OSX and core audio bit perfect ....
Very informative! Thanks!!
I've been trying to determine which software to use based on audio quality. My ears were telling me that rekordbox sounded fuller but that my have been due to the increase in DBs. Tricksy!
I much prefer VDJ but I find the sound to gets blurry when I change things such as the pitch and the pitch sync lock feature. Lossless seems to helps. (be nice have lossless streaming)
Will stick with VDJ for the moment. If I have a mix to record I'll probably have to Rekorbox it though.
Posted Thu 03 Dec 20 @ 6:28 am
Adion
To improve the quality of changing pitch, you can try pitchQuality at 3
Posted Thu 03 Dec 20 @ 7:30 am
francedisio
Adion wrote :
To improve the quality of changing pitch, you can try pitchQuality at 3
Yes I have that on 3
Just turned latency down to 256. Maybe it should be lower... or higher?
Posted Thu 03 Dec 20 @ 12:00 pm
Shabba Khe
I see that tests were done on Serato Lite. Is there a reason that none were done for Serato dj Pro?
Also, do u think the same result would be produce for Rekordbox 6?
Also, do u think the same result would be produce for Rekordbox 6?
Posted Wed 22 Dec 21 @ 11:02 pm
Mr T a l 0
Just thought I'd drop a comment here, as saw this post referenced in another troll thread that may well be removed. Very interesting analysis here👌. Well done.
Two points though:
I know this is an old post, however the recent VDJ release that improves pitch quality has been really noticeable, so this may well resolve the blurry artifacts mentioned above.
Secondly, I had no idea "neither VB HIFI cable nor Voicemeter virtual asio are 100% perfect bit with Windows".
I always just assumed they were!
Two points though:
I know this is an old post, however the recent VDJ release that improves pitch quality has been really noticeable, so this may well resolve the blurry artifacts mentioned above.
Secondly, I had no idea "neither VB HIFI cable nor Voicemeter virtual asio are 100% perfect bit with Windows".
I always just assumed they were!
Posted Mon 04 Sep 23 @ 9:54 am