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Topic: Awful problem syncing songs with same BPM - Page: 1

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Hello, folks. I didn't know where to post this, so excuse me if this is not the right place. I'm new to the forum here and also new to DJ-ing. I need help or advices how I can beatmatch one song with another that won't sync properly for god knows why reason. Songs are with identical BPM (138 <> 138), but when I try to beatmatch one with another using sync, everything goes messy. Tried to re-analyze the BPM, tried to sync it manually, tried to fix the CBR, tried using pitch - nothing doesn't work. I tried something other just to be sure I've not messed the song somehow - tried to beatmatch it with another one again with the same BPM, and it works like a charm. What can I do to beatmatch such song for example properly using the Sync button? Sorry I am asking the same question, but didn't found answer to it using the search button. Thanks!
 
Posted Thu 26 Dec 13 @ 6:06 pm
What are the tracks?

Cheers,

Roy
 
This is the true art of DJing.

Some songs simply do not have a steady tempo. Automatic BPM counters only show a single BPM because they take an average over the length of the track, but some tracks vary continuously.

Mix one variable track with a steady track and that's a challenge. Take two tracks that vary in different places and you're truly up against it.

The sync option relies on the beat grid, but the beat grid has a fixed spacing, so only truly aligns when a track has a steady BPM.

There are two ways to deal with it. One is to ride the pitch fader and adjust on the fly. The other is to use software such as Ableton Live to warp the tracks and straighten them out to an even tempo.
 
Lesson here, don't relay on sync and learn to beat match by ear.......... Flame me if you want but this proves you can't count on it.
 
Afternova - Tranquility (Original Mix) and Blue Horizon & Shyprince - Lithium (Original Trance Mix), which are uplifting trance. Bought on Amazon before a couple of months. Well, I've started using VirtualDJ before 10 days, so, I don't know how to beatmatch songs other way than using the Sync button. Tried some times to do it manually, but, hell, I just can't do it because the transition from one song to another one messes up and everything sounds like trash.

P.s.: Read now some topics on the forums here, and almost everyone recommends not to use the sync button. Then how I can beatmatch songs manually like I can do with the Sync button? Can you recommend me a tutorial or something like for a start so I learn how to beatmatch not by using that sync button?
 
Ellaskins
 
So you want to learn how to be a real dj? Cool!

First question: are you using a controller (a device to control the software)? If so then what I am going to attempt to explain will make it easier for you to practice. If you are not using a controller it may be a bit harder but you could do it with a mouse.

One thing you need to learn is Pitch Bend...the + (pitch up/speed up when you press it) and - (pitch down/slow down when you press it).

EXAMPLE:

Pick 2 songs with the same BPM and that have a steady 4/4 beat (1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4) - count the down beats.

Load the songs on a different deck (one song left deck the other right deck).

Start the song on the left deck...when you are ready to mix start the song on the right deck on the DOWN BEAT of 1 to begin your "mix". Use your EAR so you can hear when the second song starts to get off beat...use the pitch bend buttons +/- to adjust to get the second song back in sync.

To perfect this process keep practicing so you can learn how much adjusting the pitch bend buttons can do...as in the longer you hold down the button the faster it may speed up so if you don't want to adjust that much then don't press it down for that long but more like tap it.

You can do this to both decks...load another song on left deck while right deck is playing...do the same thing.

The pitch slider (goes up and down) is what you use to "match" the bpm's. You can do this before you start to play the song.

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This is just ONE important process you must learn and perfect. Once you have this down you need to learn song structure so you can mix correctly without it sounding like a train-wreck.

SONG STRUCTURE

Listen to your favorite songs to hear how they are "structured". Once you develop an ear you can pretty much mix any songs and genre's as most are built around the same structure. You will be able to feel and hear when to start the song you are going to play so it overlaps perfectly with what you are mixing out of.

Outside of what I have stated above youtube is a pretty good resource...look up things yourself. I'll help with this http://www.djtutor.com/tutor/ellaskins/
 
Hmmm.....I'm not sure what the issue is here.

I've just had a look at both of these tracks myself. Apart from being in different keys, they should mix just fine.

One's a little slower than the other, but once the BPMs are the same (press sync) then they stay locked - as they should, because they're both modern tracks. I can get the beginning of Tranquility to mix over the end of Lithium without any nudging or tweaking.

Which track did you beatmatch with another which worked "like a charm"?

Maybe there's a small section of one track that's out of sync or has an odd bar length.
 
Uhm, keyboard + mouse. I'm planning to buy a hardware for mixing music, but I don't know when this will be, so that's why I'm gonna try it the harder way by using only my hands, keyboard & mouse. I've tried yesterday to beatmatch another two songs using pitch, yeah, it seems not that hard to learn, but the problem is that songs I want to mix are not always the same bpm (it varies from 130 to 140 BPM) and speed, and if I try to beatmatch for example one song at 135 BPM with one that is 140, it's near impossible because the beats mismatch. Looked on Google for lessons or something like that how I can learn beatmatching, but I don't know where to start from... Can you recommend me something?
 
TheVtlDJ wrote :
if I try to beatmatch for example one song at 135 BPM with one that is 140, it's near impossible because the beats mismatch.


That's what the pitch controls are for. You should start by reading the manual and learning what each of the controls do.
 
It's pretty simple. Use your ears.

Listen to one beat then listen to the other. When one of the beats you have identified goes faster or slower just adjust the speed of the track to the point that they match each other.

Keith
 
groovedj, I already learned what all the controls do, tried using pitch, but the problem is not there, the problem is that the construction of the song is different. See here for what I am talking about - http://i.imgur.com/4m68jGh.jpg
 
Your grid is off on both tracks, its never gonna line up just hitting sync.......... l
Read the manual , learn to fix your grids and try again. If that doesn't work learn to do it by ear.

Peace and I'm out
Huey
 
Looking at that pic, it looks like the CBG on the blue track (Afternova) is not lined up properly.

I've just tried manually lining up those exact same waveform sections and they are on top of each other, as they should be.

The "blobs" of the CBG should be aligned with the peaks in the waveform.
 
1) Count the BPM out yourself see if it really is 138. I found VDJ and all other software I use, do not count BPM accurately (about 3-5% of the time). That track may actually be 69 or 70 BPM or even 130.

2) Make sure your beat grids are in line. You can check this by counting out the bars. Making sure the thicker dots land on the 1 beat.

3) NEVER RELY ON SYNC. NEVER RELY ON SOFTWARE. Instead rely on the basics of DJ'ing. Manually counting BPM, Manually Counting bars, Manually beat matching by ear. All of this will give you less troubles in the end.


 
Do tracks warped in ableton 9 live sync up in VDJ 8?
 
I've only done a little warping so far, but all you're doing is regulating the beat. Human drummers cannot keep time like a metronome. When VDJ analyses the work of a human drummer who varies the beat, on purpose or not, it cannot assign an accurate beatgrid. Then the problems related to using the sync button emerge.

VirtualDJ does make things very easy, so what if the beatgrid does not work, or the beat varies?
VDJ actually visually shows the beat in wave form. It is a poor show if given such a helpful visual display we cannot manually correct things.
All that need be done then is to check in the headphones if it sounds ok.
This can be done very fast.
Often a loop can be helpful.
 
Learn how to dj
 
If you think overlapping two beats is DJing think again.
DJing is about communicating with an audience both verbally, and using music.
This involves a wide range of technologies which are changing, and will continue to change.
If you cannot cope with technology, and change then you are not suited to this world, let alone being a DJ.

Wave riding is here to stay.
Atomix created it, and it will become universal.
We still need headphones since It does have its limitations.

I suspect this old thread was brought back to seek my views.

Any who don't like visual displays should go back to the Pioneer CDJ1000, and also should not use timecode, nor Serato & Traktor since both use waves as do the Nexus2000.
Remember no cheating (not even to look at a bpm counter !).
Good luck.
 
 
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