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Topic: Button pushers & Deadmou5 - Page: 1

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Posted Thu 28 Jun 12 @ 4:25 pm
I agree. If I've said it once, I've said it a million times. All DJs do is push play on real artists music. I've said that at least a dozen times to MP3JRick.....
 
I agree with what Deadmau5 is saying. He is an amazing producer and his shows are pretty spectacular looking. I find it just a tiny bit hypocritical of him that he is making huge sums of money off his own "button pusher" performances regardless of admitting it.
 
I've been saying this for ages now. I bet Guetta and the like are exactly the same ..... and maybe some DJs in big clubs too!

For me being a DJ is about performing and pleasing the crowd, for others it's how to get the money the easiest way possible.

Keith
 
I originally come from the underground dance music scene, i.e unlicensed raves, pirate radio stations etc, then realised this had its own issues (such as you end up coming into conflict with the law!) so I moved city, grew up became a good boy and got a professional IT career (I work in ICT for healthcare with business-critical and often safety critical networking, telecoms and finance systems for a day job).

I rediscovered DJ'ing with VDJ as I realised you could use the "same kit for work as for play" (within reason, that doesn' t mean that stuff what might be hooked up to patients is also streaming euphoric trance to their hospital beds) !!

Although my ethos is still quite underground, as my favourite current genre is trance I do have some sympathy for these "superstar DJs" or those holding residencies in big clubs - I think its inevitable once they get past a certain celebrity status and it becomes business critical that the star talent delivers a spot on performance, they aren't going to take risks, any more than I would take risks with systems at work. Also competition is intense, in some parts of England (like my town, Ipswich) there is a virtual zero tolerance policy on EDM events and even London's scene has been vastly downsized since the heydays of rave and dance in the 90s...
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OK in their case no one could be hurt but there is still loads of money at stake and if becoming a "button pusher" safeguards it then fair enough. I also worked for a bit in the professional broadcast industry (which in the 90s was using similar tech to VDJ but on clunkier kit scaled for large TV studios and way more expensive) and mistakes aren't tolerated.

I prefer to keep that sort of more conservative "safeguarded button pushing" for work and innovate more for fun stuff but music is now my hobby rather than a full time career so I can afford to take more risks there..
 
I want Rick Man's opinion on this
 
so ..... this is a straightforward case of

Rick saying to Rick ......Rick ?
 
Well being that he lobbed the grenade, it would be nice to know which way he swings on this one.
 
I love Deadmou5 sound. I love his videos. However, I have known for a long time, that most DJ's at a certain level have not been truly live. Mix shows on the radio are taped. I used to send in a tape every month to a radio show, back in the day. I love that these guys have turned this into a huge money maker for themselves, and give credit for Deadmou5 for speaking the truth. Look, without the lights, the spectacle, the drugs, we would not be having this conversation. When the high wore off at a Grateful Dead concert, you said, " this band sucks". What I have a problem with is the perception. This is my 45Th year as a DJ. I was a great DJ before buttons. I have not used vinyl since 1990, and don't pretend to. Time code is a joke, you are not using vinyl. You are still pushing buttons. Actually, you are pushing keys on a key board. Why is it so hard to admit it? I was pushing buttons on my first pro CD player. What I laugh at, is the perception that you are mixing live, when you are actually playing a premixed track. We all know, that after you make a mix, the only thing left, is to apply some effects. Some guys may add some instrument that they can play. However, most of our time is spent figuring out what we are going to play next. This is not a easy task, when you are live. Well, if you already have your show recorded, well, that sounds like Milli Vanilli to me. What was David Guetta doing on that award show, while the song is playing? Putting headphones to his ear, back spinning, st.. st.. st... starting a new track or sample, turning buttons??? C'mon, you are playing one track for Nicki Minaj. You have done nothing, the song is just playing. It just looks like he is doing something. I look just like him when I am playing, but I AM PLAYING. Hey, once in a blue moon, I make a mistake, but that is part of performing live. I do not hate these guys. What I hate is the culture that it has spawned. We have guys on this forum that think VDJ is a toy, because some named DJ does not use it. How sad and pathetic is that? You use a controller, oh you can't be a real DJ. Real DJs use turntables, or CDJs, and another software. Is the iphone a real phone, if it doesn't have a rotary dial? As if these tools will make you a better DJ? Oh my God, I need colored waveforms, so I can make a mix. Please.

So the reason I posted this link is because I have a lot of respect for Deadmou5. He has is own unique look, style, and above all integrity. I just found out about the integrity part. I also thought it would be informative.
 
^^^You took the words right from my brain my friend. Well said.
 
What is interesting is not knowing what those buttons are doing, be it cue jumping, or effect triggering or whatever midi command you like.
I don't believe its straight up pre recorded, but scene fired segues including cue'd lighting effects.

There is a difference between a touring dj complete with sync'd light shows expected to match verbatim what is released vs. a freestyle club dj. I would have to figure if he went freestyle the crew would freak out not knowing what to do, because its a production.
There has to be consistency or its helter skelter imo.
These guys spend months in the studio building these sets, I follow one who tours.
Its not as simplistic as an hour on Ableton to run a show like he does, that's just bullshit.

It's a hard thing to classify with juke box dj on the left and the on point technical button pusher on the right.
Its the first guy that creates the impression we live with as technical dj mixers.

Had conversations with guys like Roonie who build video sets this way with cue presets he hits, and I don't see the harm given the result.
If you've done more than one dj show with a production dj, you will hear the same set each time, but as long as he is not hitting the same clubs he is safe.

I admire his honesty, but he's not the button pushing jerk that is playing someone else's mash up like it was his (just pushing play).

That is where the hate comes from and I think the reason VDJ takes the largest portion of the hate is the tools it puts in the dj's hands, its really powerful software. Then you top that off with free and cracked versions and these haters are downright seething angry and needing to vent.

Got into a heated conversation where vdj was tossed up for the spike shot and opened with this: "oh that button pushing, microwave, sync button, automixing, laptop staring, controller totin' son of a bitch...don't cry man....hehe, jab jab...sorry hadda".

The heated conversation ended with this comment to the author:

Entry level dj's start up the ladder and either fail or succeed, its a natural process. Nobody that succeeds sticks with this kind of set up for long, and only once will they use that stupid sync button live and say wtf, I will never do that again. From that point on its practice practice practice. I see your set up and see you engage midi and know that if it weren't for that your show wouldn't be anything close to what it is with just 1200s. That same control is what was born with the DMC 1, DAC 2 and so on with respect to software control and it didn't start with Serato. The evolution that has occurred since then has been one hell of a ride. Control devices that interlace a dj with software is the future imo. Granted some are toys, but some are elegant in detail and deserve that respect for lacing the dj up for action. VDJ has lead the way in this regard despite supporting some of these toys as some put it. I compare SSL/ME and VDJ and frankly get frustrated with the lack of features in SSL that VDJ puts at my finger tips with ease and I don't mean simplistic wavy push button action but fine tuned control that I see you crave with your set up Josh. Some of these 13 year old dj's I see using VDJ and even broke college students who can't afford shit have the opportunity to become something if they stay at it, an opportunity they wouldn't have had otherwise pirated or not. I don't think any one of us would not grant help to someone who craved what we do, and that's your objective in the Video Report imo. The 13 year olds that do could someday be the superstars of tomorrow. I have one right now that is seeking vinyl use and I know he has goals and needs a path. He started with a controller that I gave him a year ago. He might find this whole discussion discouraging and that is not what we want to do regardless of who our FB friends are. Peaceout

So I guess the main point is it's a vast grey area from the simplest to the most technical button pusher and can't be categorized.
To me the reality is the dj makes the choice of whether he wants to be impressive with his buttons or perform an act just looking the part.
 
Hey, I have never seen Deadmou5 live, but have seen live videos. It is a brilliant spectacle, but still a spectacle. Thank God, we have zombies in the world that can be manipulated by bright lights. I try to keep things real simple. He is a magician, and a great one. It is literally, smoke and mirrors. "Hey kids, have some mind altering substances all day, get baked in the sun, squeeze yourself in real tight, to restrict your oxygen intake, take another hit of this, look at the bright lights, smoke, stilt walkers, trapeze artist, CO2 spraying half naked girls, large video monitors on each side, sound with jet engine producing decibels, and.......wait for it......wait for it......BOOM, WATCH ME JUMP UP AND DOWN. Did you see me turn that button, and nothing happened? Wait, I did it again, while the same track is playing, and nothing happened again." Magic. There is nothing wrong with magic, I love magicians. I have not lost sight that Deadmou5, is a great producer and re-mixer, and plays his own stuff. So there is no hatred coming from me, just the facts. Now I have seen DJ Larry D and Ronnie G, live many, many times. I know they spend months and months on pre production and practice. However, when they perform live, they are live, and make mistakes. Some are small and most people can't catch them. Others are not so small, but they recover, and keep it moving. To top it off, they are in front of the most critical crowd, other DJs. So they have to bring it live, because we give no mercy. (I'm sorry, that should have read, we are Jealous Bitches). When I see them "in the groove", I see and hear every move they make. If they touch a button, I hear it. I they turn a knob, I see it. I also give them much respect for their programing, which sets them apart from most of us. As I said before, I make mistakes. So what, the world does not come to a screeching stop. I use pre production and practice in my performance also. It comes in the form of playing someone else's music. That's what we all do. When I make a move it is not fake. You will hear a sample, sound effect, see a video affect, hear a a capella or instrumental, or a mistake. In the world I live in, there is no such thing as perfection. So when I see or hear perfection, I know it's fake, and not humanly possible. I posted his remarks, because he had the guts to say the exact same thing. If he sent me some free VIP tickets ( I can't be down there with the sheep) to his show, I would me there, because I can appreciate magic.
 


It really comes down to the type of show and the level you're playing at, as others have said; it's one thing playing at your cousins wedding taking requests all night and another when you're performing to tens of thousands. What surprises me about this is that anybody is actually surprised, it's fairly obvious, and this isn't limited to people who use laptops, you can just as easily do the same with CDJ's, they play their mix CD in one and mess about with samples and loops on one or two others, it gives them time to mess about behind the booth nerve free. There's also a lot of lies circulating FB, youtube and forums like this one, for example David Guetta can and does mix live, no reason to hate on real DJ's who've been in the game long before half of this technology.

Everything I do, I do live without a playlist, practiced set or any kind of preparation beyond making the edits I play, I'm experienced enough to know what's going to work before I attempt it, if I'm not in the zone I might make some minor mistakes and these people waiving their hands in front of my face so they can request something off topic doesn't help with that. If I was at the top level playing to a crowd who all come to hear one style of music I'd have a show planned for sure, except I'd have a plan B too as you never know.

Getting two beats in time was once considered the magic, not anymore, so it's time to truly master the art of DJ'ing and there's no shortcuts in that regard.
 
Yeah......except syncing. Just speeds up the process X 200.
 
Man..its all about the music...in other words ...the final product.and in House and most dance music the so-called Dj is more of a producer first.but since that would not be fixable on stage..then they play the part of a Dj.and since we evolve along with technology..then we end up on stage with push button devices..right?...but if we happened to know how to play a instrument then u add that to the show (ie:Moby,Groove Armada,Faithless..) but I know where deadmou5's talents are..so...but Record Companies need to back this up so the Dj can afford a group or singers on the stage.reminds me way back in early 90's when I went to see JAM & SPOON feat. Plavka (was it?)..and i noticed that a.) they where playing cheap Yamaha home keyboards and b.) the keyboards was'nt plugged!! but at least the vocalist was singing...Anyways...such its dance music...
 
Dude, we are not producers. True, a lot of DJs do some production work but, the vast majority of DJs do not. Tiesto, for example, has moved into producing his own music but, he is the exception, not the rule. That is one line of reasoning that has to stop, the "I'm an artist" bull crap. I select a good song to follow up the one I am currently playing. That does not make me an artist...... it makes me a DJ. And there is nothing wrong with being "just" a DJ.....
 
Yay ......

A whole post from thetracker510 where he hasn't mentioned he has an Alienware!

I'm off to buy a lottery ticket!
 
Dj Arum wrote :
Yeah......except syncing. Just speeds up the process X 200.


That's the point I'm making, getting two beats in time means jack shit today so the question is what else can you do?
 
yeah.."We" are Dj's but people who end up on the big stage are there because of some production work....Bob sinclar,David Vega,but anyways ,people gotta quit complaining.if you are or gonna be a button pusher..cool...but hopefuly with something to back it up...its a competative world and so....but the other thing is I do it All...so I dont need 100 new controllers and such..like I've told a few here and there its about the skills and confidence.BTW I Like Deadmou5 and I think he is just being fustrated inside (this happens to us all,look at Moby) and he would like to be able to add to his Live performance.deep inside thats what he is complaining about.the same goes for us...
 
kradcliffe wrote :
Yay ......

A whole post from thetracker510 where he hasn't mentioned he has an Alienware!

I'm off to buy a lottery ticket!


yeah..I'm capable of doing that as well (but I am posting this with my ahh,ehh Plutonian tank..he,he
 
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