Quick Sign In:  

Forum: General Discussion

Topic: A beginners short lecture on lossy mp3 file formats? - Page: 1

This part of topic is old and might contain outdated or incorrect information

VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
OK lets do it, let's have a level playing field.

Most of you understand that mp3 file quality varies, and that mp3 is the adopted standard, which even I use, though I believe there are better formats.
I believe a 320kb/s cbr mp3 can equal cd quality.

Anyway:

1) If you have a mp3 ripped to the top quality of 320kb/s cbr it must be very good? Wrong! If you check it with a spectrum analyser like the free Speck http://spek.cc/ then you might find it's a rubbish mp3! Remember that what the mp3 is made from is the most important factor. Hence learn to use a spectrum analyser. Don't assume that you bought it, and it's just good.

2) OK so we have an mp3 which looks good in the spectrum analyser, however there are still a multitude of errors which can be hidden in the file which cause mp3 skipping, and poor sound quality. I use MP3 Diags http://sourceforge.net/projects/mp3diags/ on a linux system to eliminate these problems. This program is also available for Windows.

..and always use your ears to finally check the mp3's quality.

You now may be a match for a good club dj, but with the advantage of vdj 8, I would say you're superior.
Decks, and cd's cannot match what Atomix offers the DJ world.

Good luck, in particular to the struggling young dj's who cannot afford Pioneer equipment to learn on, and hence entry into the elite dj world.
Talent, and not money will be your entry ticket in the future DJ world.
You have a chance.
 

Posted Tue 28 Apr 15 @ 12:15 pm
AdionPRO InfinityCTOMember since 2006
About 1. - a spectrum analyzer is quite useless on lossy compression formats.
You will of course see differences since it's not a lossless compression, however the idea is that what is left out is inaudible.
Most properly set-up double-blind listening tests reveal that at 192kbps mp3 cannot be distinguished from the original for most music and most people.

The biggest problem with mp3 will indeed be if the mp3's you use do not come from a reliable source.
In that case sound quality might be bad for a variety of reason such as corrupt bytes, bad encoder settings, bad encoder used, bad source used to begin with, re-encoding a low-bitrate mp3 again etc...
There should be no issues in terms of quality with the 320kbps mp3's you typically find at online music stores.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 12:45 am
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
"The biggest problem with mp3 will indeed be if the mp3's you use do not come from a reliable source"
This is the problem!
Even an online source can supply inferior quality mp3's, and the situation is worse with low quality mp3's which have been resampled to 320kb/s.
Some old songs that are sold as mp3 are only equivalent to 160kb/s cbr.
Some remixes use a combination of different quality "songs" mashed together.
The frequency analyser will tell you if the mp3 is truly 320kb/s, or a 256, 192,160, or 128 in disguise.
Use the frequency analyser, and learn about the patterns that represent good sound.
Take no notice of this guy.

....and use your ears.

Are world is full of screwed up, and castrated mp3's.
That is one reason why the digital dj has been a bit of a joke.
Quality has fallen off the mp3 cliff, but it need not be like that.

Lets not forget the crashing windows operating system because the computer is not correctly optimised, and the manufacturer has filled it with bloatware.

I have overheard people talking about their parties, and they lament the fact you cannot get a good dj.
The digital dj on a budget has been murdered.

I'm fed up with the so called music industry, the thieves have sold me the same songs on record, tape, cd, and now in a questionable mp3 format prior to selling them yet again as lossless, multi-track, and then as lossless with video..and so on.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 4:37 am
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
A specific example of legal music which troubles me at the moment is a song by the Foundations called Build Me Up Buttercup. I have many so called radio edits bought over the years, I'm not talking about live, or remixes, and they sound different?
This song is important to me, yet I'm not sure which is the best version. The music industry would have you believe there all the same, that's not true.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 6:26 am
bigron1 wrote :
A specific example of legal music which troubles me at the moment is a song by the Foundations called Build Me Up Buttercup. I have many so called radio edits bought over the years, I'm not talking about live, or remixes, and they sound different?
This song is important to me, yet I'm not sure which is the best version. The music industry would have you believe there all the same, that's not true.


with so many re-issues, re-mastered versions of the songs it is difficult to find original copies of the songs. Going back to the late 90's there was a flood of Cd's being produced and I certainly made the mistake of purchasing, If you read on the back it would say something like this? This cd has been digitaly re-mastered using as many of the original group as possible, or something like that, but you can bet your life the songs that we have come to know do not sound anything like the original.

 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 6:41 am
Tear Em 'UpPRO InfinitySenior ModeratorMember since 2006
Go to a record store. Pick up an old album. Look at the label on the vinyl. Notice the writing near the label? Those are production notes, by the recording producer. There was not a standardized format. So, each producer had has own way of remembering things, via those notes. It was very personal. Think of it as a unique short hand. Hence, if the original producer did not work with the digital remastering, it did not sound as good. That is why so many older songs took so long to bring up to a decent quality digital format.

The problem wasn't/isn't MP3 vs analog. It was just not understanding the information that was archived.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 6:53 am
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
DJMikeJames, I think I bought the same type of cd in the 80's & 90's, they were guaranteed to humiliate a DJ !
I've thrown them all in the bin. LOL
However my Build Me Up Buttercup example is less pronounced, but still important.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 7:40 am
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
I wonder who I'm telling you to ignore, he has 12 stars, WOW.
He has no profile, and yet has a small fan club, including the competant vdj DJsoundman.
In fact DJsoundman has received promo videos off this guy.
SBDJ, and PhantomDeejay for whom I have the greatest respect, only have 11 stars!
I wonder if anyone has 13 stars?
Na I reckon 12 stars is the top, 13 would be tempting fate.

Anyway if you think about the spectrum analyser then you'll find I'm right.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 9:14 am
This is one issue that I am not losing sleep over. I don't know who you guys are playing to, but I'm not playing to a club full of audiophiles. Most of the people that I play to are brain dead, and on some form of mood altering substance, which includes alcohol. They listen to music through their phone , with cheap headphones. Even those with great headphones, don't have a clue what good music sounds like. If someone came to me with some kind of testing equipment at the club, I would beat them to within an inch of their lives, with my Shure Beta 58. I don't play any music that has pops or any other artifacts. The same way I did not play records that skipped. If it sounds good to me, it's good enough for the masses.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 12:30 pm
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
" If it sounds good to me, it's good enough for the masses"

Now that's something that worries me, you're approximately my age. We cannot hear the sounds that the young can. Hence I periodically get young people to confirm that everything sounds good. What is in the back of my mind is that the young people can be driven away from shopping malls by high frequency sound which we can't hear?!

The other thing is that you denigrate your audience. My audience is rarely on drugs, and can normally manage the alcohol they consume. Often they will sing for me, and I'm stunned by their quality.

PS: I've only got 2 x Shure SM58. Anyway there good enough for me, though the Beta is better. Also I'm totally against drugs since I believe they have helped to undermine the whole of the western world.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 12:43 pm
Alcohol is a drug, and any more than one drink, you start to lose capabilities. The more you drink, the less functional you become. Maybe your guess are only drinking one or two drinks, that is not the case with me. Todays young people have no concept of good sound, because most have not experienced it. If you grow up listening to low bitrate mp3s, that's with you are accustomed to. I don't care what young people can hear, because they don't hire me. As I stated before, I have more important things to worry about. My 320kbps sound great to me, and as long as they keep paying me, I'm good to go. You don't have to let it worry you, I'm playing on the other side of the pond, so you will never hear me.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 1:07 pm
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
This thread is twinkling with stars, and I only have three.
If I carry on I bet I'll end up with none.
Whatever.

Young DJ's be audiophiles, use VDJ 8, and go after the likes of Guetta, Avicii, and Harris.
Make sure your music is top quality, and then you will be ready for everything from the local pub to Wembley Arena.
Accept no compromise.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 1:13 pm
bigron1 wrote :
he has 12 stars, WOW.
He has no profile, and yet has a small fan club


Adion (Gwen) is the lead developer, the guy who wrote VDJ 8 - along with Stephane (sclavel) who is the originator of VDJ.

http://www.virtualdj.com/press/adionsoft.html

 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 1:28 pm
All opinions are welcomed, no matter how many stars you have.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 1:35 pm
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
Thanks groovindj
In that case he's my hero.
It is indeed a privilege to argue with him.

"Take no notice of this guy." LOL

Anyway he's still wrong!
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 1:36 pm
Tear Em 'UpPRO InfinitySenior ModeratorMember since 2006
By the way, Steph has the most stars.....
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 9:00 pm
locodogPRO InfinityModeratorMember since 2013
*Ahem*

I'll see his 12 stars and raise it to the power stupid.
 

Posted Wed 29 Apr 15 @ 9:58 pm
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
For the young, and hopeful...
Lossless flac files are supported by VDJ 8, that includes tags, and album art.
...if you have a large enough hard drive.
The spectrum analyser works on a flac file so you can still check your music for intrinsic quality.

I'm happy with 320kb/s cbr mp3, but I'm old, and will never be the best.
 

Posted Thu 30 Apr 15 @ 9:11 am
blckjckPRO InfinityMember since 2008
I have done a few blind tests with groups of 5 people. The ages of the listeners ranged from 10 to 40.
Over 95% of the time they could not tell the difference between the CD, an Apple Lossless file, and a 320 cbr MP3. When they found a difference, they were not steadily pointing to the uncompressed as being better, they just noticed a difference.
One thing that held a higher average of detection is something with a piano solo, or other acoustical instruments. For those, the 320 cbr seemed more noticeable within the small percentage of people. I do rip all of my purchased CD's into a lossless format. Hard drive space is much cheaper now then it used to be, so the cost is not and issue. I do this for when I want to listen to the music in my home.

I would not hesitate to play a high bitrate MP3 live at a gig. I always listen to a track before I play it live to check the quality. PA gear is not audiofile gear. Most equipment within the reach of clubs, dj's, and even larger venues are not going to be accurate across the sound spectrum at 125+db. While I strive to have quality sounding music, I understand the limitations of the equipment.

Every gig that I have done, be it live sound or prerecorded audio, has brought compliments on the quality of the sound. This is not because of the best equipment or the best source material, it is the setup of the available equipment and making sure the source material is error free.
 

Posted Thu 30 Apr 15 @ 6:42 pm
VDJ RonPRO InfinityMember since 2010
If you had to perform in a large stadium in front of 50,000 people would you use mp3's?
I would use lossless flac.
Lossless is the format for the top professional.
Everybody else is ok with mp3.
 

Posted Thu 30 Apr 15 @ 6:57 pm
63%