DJ BoOhm
Hello, I just have a question to ask you. Why is Atomix Production made a very sensitive and a great DVS system if the sound engine when scratching is not very good. And is there a way to disable that limiter (a limiter is a compressor) because the gain is too much and it cause distorsion? I wish to have an answer. Thank you in advance
Posted Wed 01 Apr 15 @ 8:37 pm
dcomo
I can't answer the quality issue, however there is no way (as of now) to disable the limiter.
Posted Wed 01 Apr 15 @ 10:39 pm
djdad
The limiter is there and always enabled exactly for this reason, to prevent distortion due to a high applied Gain.
So maybe your audio quality is not related to Gain/limiter ?
Are you pushing Gains over 0db ?
What sound card and hardware/controller are you using ?
As for scratching sound quality, you could maybe try PitchQuality 1 (from Options)
So maybe your audio quality is not related to Gain/limiter ?
Are you pushing Gains over 0db ?
What sound card and hardware/controller are you using ?
As for scratching sound quality, you could maybe try PitchQuality 1 (from Options)
Posted Wed 01 Apr 15 @ 11:44 pm
DJ BoOhm
@dcomo: Thank you for your reply, I know that Atomix Production will not propose the limiter as an option but maybe one time they will.
@djdad: Yes, I understand but we can have our responsability to be able to use the gain with moderation. But anyway, you are right because the most of DJ's need limiter: I saw a video of Bob Sinclar mixing in a club and he was always in red. That's not serious for a DJ like him.
I use Mp3 320kbps all the time and sometimes M4a bought from iTunes.
No, i don't push Gains over 0db because the gain is too much when it is at 0db and it causes distortion because of the limiter.
I use a Hercules 4-MX with a Reloop RP4000M as Timecode with Serato Vinyl Control. I have a Numark NS7 too but the sound still the same.
I tried it to change the parameter but the sound still the same.
@djdad: Yes, I understand but we can have our responsability to be able to use the gain with moderation. But anyway, you are right because the most of DJ's need limiter: I saw a video of Bob Sinclar mixing in a club and he was always in red. That's not serious for a DJ like him.
I use Mp3 320kbps all the time and sometimes M4a bought from iTunes.
No, i don't push Gains over 0db because the gain is too much when it is at 0db and it causes distortion because of the limiter.
I use a Hercules 4-MX with a Reloop RP4000M as Timecode with Serato Vinyl Control. I have a Numark NS7 too but the sound still the same.
I tried it to change the parameter but the sound still the same.
Posted Fri 03 Apr 15 @ 1:49 am
Adion
Can you tell me which song this is?
If you can hear the limiter working, then it would probably sound 1000x worse without limiter due to clipping distortion.
If you can hear the limiter working, then it would probably sound 1000x worse without limiter due to clipping distortion.
Posted Fri 03 Apr 15 @ 2:17 am
DJ BoOhm
@Adion: Yes there is some : _ Loyal - Chris Brown (when you scratch in the beginning the sound is worse: the bass is too much because the limiter distroy the sound)
_ Tchelete - Mafikizolo and Davido (when you just play the sound, the sound is low and the limiter work all the time and distroy the sound)
_ Paranoid - Ty Dolla Sign (the sound is low, if you boost it with the gain, the limiter will make distortions to the song because the sound engine create more basses to the sound)
I tried the same songs with Serato DJ and i didn't notice those glitches or problems, the sound is clear. I love Virtual DJ but i have those glitches from the first version of Virtual DJ 8.
Try on those songs with the last version of Virtual DJ and you will notice what's happen.
_ Tchelete - Mafikizolo and Davido (when you just play the sound, the sound is low and the limiter work all the time and distroy the sound)
_ Paranoid - Ty Dolla Sign (the sound is low, if you boost it with the gain, the limiter will make distortions to the song because the sound engine create more basses to the sound)
I tried the same songs with Serato DJ and i didn't notice those glitches or problems, the sound is clear. I love Virtual DJ but i have those glitches from the first version of Virtual DJ 8.
Try on those songs with the last version of Virtual DJ and you will notice what's happen.
Posted Fri 03 Apr 15 @ 4:03 am
Adion
Can't really reproduce your problems here.
With auto-gain to Auto, and zeroDB to 1, so default values and no extra headroom, these are my results:
-Chris Brown - Loyal: Autogain detected that it's quite loud, and applies a -3dB gain to correct this (so 3dB extra before the limiter even could kick in) sounds normal to me when scratching.
-Ty - Dollar Sign: Autogain detected that it's a little quiet, and applied a gain of 2dB to correct this. Compared to my other songs it did sound very similar in volume, I didn't feel like it required more gain to compensate. Looping over the loudest part and reducing the gain 2dB (so that the limiter doesn't kick in at all) did not sound too different for me.
I also tried to increase the gain by 2dB using an audio editor and allow clipping (which would be what would happen if you could turn the limiter off)
This seemed to reveal some clipping artifacts, but the song seemed to have enough headroom that there's not that much clipping with only 2dB gain applied.
-Davido - Tchelete: Autogain detected that the volume was ok, so a gain of -0.04dB was all that autogain did. Therefore the limiter doesn't kick in either.
You can check the final gain applied after autogain by checking the tool-tip when hovering over the gain knob.
It would be useful if you could check which gain was applied for you. If the settings are the same as mine, please try to re-analyze the tracks if they had been analyzed by a very old build of vdj 8, and see if that makes a difference.
With auto-gain to Auto, and zeroDB to 1, so default values and no extra headroom, these are my results:
-Chris Brown - Loyal: Autogain detected that it's quite loud, and applies a -3dB gain to correct this (so 3dB extra before the limiter even could kick in) sounds normal to me when scratching.
-Ty - Dollar Sign: Autogain detected that it's a little quiet, and applied a gain of 2dB to correct this. Compared to my other songs it did sound very similar in volume, I didn't feel like it required more gain to compensate. Looping over the loudest part and reducing the gain 2dB (so that the limiter doesn't kick in at all) did not sound too different for me.
I also tried to increase the gain by 2dB using an audio editor and allow clipping (which would be what would happen if you could turn the limiter off)
This seemed to reveal some clipping artifacts, but the song seemed to have enough headroom that there's not that much clipping with only 2dB gain applied.
-Davido - Tchelete: Autogain detected that the volume was ok, so a gain of -0.04dB was all that autogain did. Therefore the limiter doesn't kick in either.
You can check the final gain applied after autogain by checking the tool-tip when hovering over the gain knob.
It would be useful if you could check which gain was applied for you. If the settings are the same as mine, please try to re-analyze the tracks if they had been analyzed by a very old build of vdj 8, and see if that makes a difference.
Posted Fri 03 Apr 15 @ 5:56 am
Mobile Zombie
Interesting thread.
I noticed that VDJ 8 does not have the function to change the level applied in autogain.
In ver 7 it was possible to change down to -6dB (as far as I remember) to increase the headroom to 0dBFS (digital clip)
When applying effects or other stuff over the signal, those FX can boost the gain and clipping is unavoidable.
I know VDJ 8 has a limiter, but to achieve a more linear signal I wouldn't need to have the built in limiter to wake up if I could adjust the level.
Does VDJ8 normalize the gain to 0dBFS?
I noticed that VDJ 8 does not have the function to change the level applied in autogain.
In ver 7 it was possible to change down to -6dB (as far as I remember) to increase the headroom to 0dBFS (digital clip)
When applying effects or other stuff over the signal, those FX can boost the gain and clipping is unavoidable.
I know VDJ 8 has a limiter, but to achieve a more linear signal I wouldn't need to have the built in limiter to wake up if I could adjust the level.
Does VDJ8 normalize the gain to 0dBFS?
Posted Fri 03 Apr 15 @ 12:58 pm
wickedmix
to adjust the limiter in VDJ 8 you change the ZeroDB setting turn on advance options i guess a setting of 0.75 would be around 6db or 3db not sure which try it out the lower u go the more DB headroom you will get.....
it was called headroom in vdj 7
it was called headroom in vdj 7
Posted Fri 03 Apr 15 @ 3:34 pm
Mobile Zombie
Thank you very much wickedmix! :)
Posted Sat 04 Apr 15 @ 1:57 am
sureview
the limiter will not distort the sound, if you have distortion then maybe the file is over equalized to start with or too much gain has been added.
there is a great deal of confusion over the limiter ... when the limiter cuts in it reduces the output (backs off the gain) this usually sounds like the audio level is changing up or down - not distortion
the VDJ 8 sound engine is great, and in part this is due to the way they have included the limiter, I see (and hear) so many setups that sound poor due to overdrive and even clipping.
as the sound engine is optimised for max clean distortion free output at 0db, disabling the limiter would not help in making the sound louder, you would just distort it !
if your constantly hitting the limiter , then you need to take a look at your levels, at every stage in my setup I have optimized the levels for 0db, if your a little more old school and you prefer to match the output levels by ear, then you may need a little more headroom , in which case reduce the 0db level to .75, this is the correct way to do things , not drive the signal into the red !
if your setup is not loud enough with everything being driven correctly then maybe you need to look at your amp / speaker combo
and don't forget that you can very easily trash a great set of speakers with an underpowered amp !
there is a great deal of confusion over the limiter ... when the limiter cuts in it reduces the output (backs off the gain) this usually sounds like the audio level is changing up or down - not distortion
the VDJ 8 sound engine is great, and in part this is due to the way they have included the limiter, I see (and hear) so many setups that sound poor due to overdrive and even clipping.
as the sound engine is optimised for max clean distortion free output at 0db, disabling the limiter would not help in making the sound louder, you would just distort it !
if your constantly hitting the limiter , then you need to take a look at your levels, at every stage in my setup I have optimized the levels for 0db, if your a little more old school and you prefer to match the output levels by ear, then you may need a little more headroom , in which case reduce the 0db level to .75, this is the correct way to do things , not drive the signal into the red !
if your setup is not loud enough with everything being driven correctly then maybe you need to look at your amp / speaker combo
and don't forget that you can very easily trash a great set of speakers with an underpowered amp !
Posted Sat 04 Apr 15 @ 5:04 am
Mobile Zombie
My concern was not too low output, nor distortion. My PA can provide over 22kW :)
I have worked as audio engineer for the last 15 years and know about the signal chain...
My thoughts got an answer a bit up in this thread how to give the output level from VDJ a little more headroom, than heading for 0dB.
When effects are applied in VDJ, the levels increase and get the limiter to wake up, it does what it should, lower distortion but adds pumping.
I have worked as audio engineer for the last 15 years and know about the signal chain...
My thoughts got an answer a bit up in this thread how to give the output level from VDJ a little more headroom, than heading for 0dB.
When effects are applied in VDJ, the levels increase and get the limiter to wake up, it does what it should, lower distortion but adds pumping.
Posted Mon 06 Apr 15 @ 1:55 pm