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Topic: VDJ v.6 "Record" feature - how to control distortion: Gain or Master Volume?

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djrxmxPRO InfinityMember since 2010
First off, I use the Virtual DJ (version 6) default skin most of the time when operating the program. One of the reasons why is because I like how the volume meter is dynamically and visually measured by every song's "GAIN"/dB (it may not always be accurate but it works well for the most part). I have found so far that other user made skins don't retain this visual feature, for a lack of better term.

And so I also like to use at times some of the different user made skins. But I find the "Gain" and "Master" or "Main" volume controls to be confusing for controlling ultimately my recordings of the sets that I mix.

I am of the school of thought, though some would disagree, that a low recording volume is best for sound quality as well as minimal if any distortion. Yes, I have heard some say that the dB should be on the best threshold; but once again, I like the more conservative approach to keep recording volume lower.

Finally, I get to the subject of my post:
"Gain"
"Master"
"Main"
Which is best for controlling volume during recording of my dance music sets?

Any, uncomplicated feedback is much appreciated!

DJ Rick "Rxmx" Ashmun
 

Posted Thu 26 Aug 10 @ 12:24 am
It all depends on how you have set-up your system and how you're recording.

First of all, you shouldn't really mess with the gain knobs. Gain knobs work PRE-FADER per channel. That means that they affect the overal sound of the song, no matter where you chan/main/master volume is. Also once you turn gain up more than you should, you introduce distortion on your song (the player distorts) that can't be removed NOR it can be corrected, even if you're recording in a low volume...

If you're using VDJ's internal mixer you should be controlling your recording volume by the MASTER volume of VDJ. The only drawback is that the desired recording level might not be sufficient enough for your speakers level. I mean that if you want to record on a medium volume range your speakers might not sound loud enough to allow you do proper mixes...

If you're using an external mixer things change a little. For optimal results you should use a mixer with booth out connections. This way you can connect your mixer's booth connectors to your soundcard's line-in and set booth output to the desired recording level. Master output (that goes to your speakers) works independently from booth output. This way you can have precise control over your recording levels and master levels without one affecting each other...
 

Posted Thu 26 Aug 10 @ 12:56 am
djrxmxPRO InfinityMember since 2010
PhantomDeejay wrote :
It all depends on how you have set-up your system and how you're recording.

First of all, you shouldn't really mess with the gain knobs. Gain knobs work PRE-FADER per channel. That means that they affect the overal sound of the song, no matter where you chan/main/master volume is. Also once you turn gain up more than you should, you introduce distortion on your song (the player distorts) that can't be removed NOR it can be corrected, even if you're recording in a low volume...

If you're using VDJ's internal mixer you should be controlling your recording volume by the MASTER volume of VDJ. The only drawback is that the desired recording level might not be sufficient enough for your speakers level. I mean that if you want to record on a medium volume range your speakers might not sound loud enough to allow you do proper mixes.....


Thanks, Phantom, for the feedback.

Given what's been discussed so far in the thread and on the point of "internal mixer", do you recommend then that the Gain knobs be left at GAIN 0.0dB and/or in the negative, e.g., GAIN -0.5dB?

Also, if the Gain level on the produced/recorded song is really low, is it okay to raise the Gain knob to let's say GAIN 0.0dB or even higher if necessary?

In addition, so I want to make sure that I understand you correctly. If I am using the VDJ Internal mixer and I wish to keep the VDJ Recording level very conservative (i.e., Master Volume at approximately 50%), I should focus on controlling the Master Volume.

Lastly, this question regards terminology. Is "Main" Volume the same thing as Master Volume?


Rick
 

Posted Thu 26 Aug 10 @ 5:30 pm
djrxmxPRO InfinityMember since 2010
More notes,
In my goal to optimize a controlled VDJ Recording level of my mixes in Internal Mixer mode, I have chosen the "Auto" setting under Configuration/Settings/Options/Auto Gain. So far this appears to be a pretty good setting for controlling Gain issues, for a very lack of better words. Given what you were telling me, Phantom, this seems to be a plausible control setting so that I don't have to mess around too much with manual Gain adjustments....
 

Posted Thu 26 Aug 10 @ 7:02 pm
1) Yes, "Main" and "Master" volume are the same thing

2) The "Auto" option is the best setting for gain. Most of the time (99%) you won't have to mess with the gain knob. However you should either pre-analyze your songs, or wait for them to load completely on the players before you go live. That's because if you don't pre-analyze your tracks, auto-gain is calculated the first time you load the song on a player. Until the track fully loads, VDJ calculates the auto-gain. When the track finishes loading, it applies the gain value it calculated, resulting a sudden jump on the volume if track's volume is too low...
There's also another option for gain in the configuration: "Auto+Remember" This option is the best option ONLY if you know exactly what you're doing, and you're the only person that handles your equipment. This option works the same way as "Auto" but it also adds another function: If you manually change the gain of a track, the next time it will be loaded VDJ will remember and use the gain you have previously used on the track. It won't use the auto-calculated value!
Finally, the "Gain" values VDJ shows above the gain knobs work a little bit mysteriously: When you load a track if you don't mess with the gain knob they show the "peak" (in db) of the loaded track. If you DO mess with the knob they show you how much gain you have applied. Because of this "strange" behavior I never trust these numbers. I prefer to trust my ears and the VU-meters.
Finally, double clicking on the gain knob will reset the gain back to it's "auto" calculated value (assuming that "Auto-gain" is enabled in options)

3)In order to achieve best results with enough headroom:

  1. Set Gain to "Auto+Remember" on the options
  2. Set Master volume around 60%
  3. When you're mixing try to mix with your channel's faders up to 70%. This will give you some headroom to rise a tracks volume a little bit if the original volume is a little low without having to mess around with the gain knob. Personally I always use this technique while mixing, no matter if I'm recording or not.


If you still have questions feel free to ask!!! :)
 

Posted Fri 27 Aug 10 @ 1:29 am
djrxmxPRO InfinityMember since 2010
PhantomDeejay wrote :
1)
If you still have questions feel free to ask!!! :)


Beautiful, man, I appreciate that. I will be doing some tweaking as such....
So far, your suggestions have been quite concrete, detailed, yet simple. I really value the tips offered thus far.

I was also thinking, as the "Auto - Remember" is an amazing little tweak/setting i.e., that I will transgress into that setting asap. I'm thinking for now to start with "Auto" for a while, and then doing mild tweaking of the gain.

Hope to talk again. For me, controlling volume and its impact on sound quality is paramount to just about everything else including labored excellence into trying to achieve the perfect mix/transition between songs...especially when it comes to recording, imo.
 

Posted Fri 27 Aug 10 @ 2:33 am
djrxmxPRO InfinityMember since 2010
PhantomDeejay wrote :


  • Set Gain to "Auto+Remember" on the options
  • Set Master volume around 60%
  • [*]When you're mixing try to mix with your channel's faders up to 70%. This will give you some headroom to rise a tracks volume a little bit if the original volume is a little low without having to mess around with the gain knob. Personally I always use this technique while mixing, no matter if I'm recording or not.
    [/list]



    Believe it or not, but since I've been doing digital deejaying, I've used about four different progams (VDJ being last and current one), and your formula here for Internal mixer mode and volume control is the best advise I've had yet. Thanks man. Will let you know if anything else comes up on that note.

    Rick
     

    Posted Sat 28 Aug 10 @ 3:14 am


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