isrort
I just opened this topic to discuss about the benefits using a passive vs active set up...
i just got a PA Speakers and PA Subs, but in the future i would like to increase my set up... so.... should i go in the same line: Active, or should i mix with a passive arrangement?
thks
i just got a PA Speakers and PA Subs, but in the future i would like to increase my set up... so.... should i go in the same line: Active, or should i mix with a passive arrangement?
thks
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 1:09 pm
Tear Em 'Up
Unless you, or someone you know, is very good at figuring out which amps work best with which speakers, doing the math (8 ohms or 4 ohms? bridged stereo, or dual mono for examples) is essential. Active, or powered, speakers are the easiest way to go. The manufacturers have already taken care of the math for you. All I use are active systems for my mobile business. I own four complete systems and run all of them with a Behringer EQ and, some sort of sonic maximizer/enhancer. I often get very nice compliments on the quality, and ease of set up is a bonus.
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 1:34 pm
theStylishDJ
curretnly i use a pa set up also, 250 watt amp and 2 10in woofers, with 10 in sub...its a begginer set but i promise it hits the in the chest..
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 2:56 pm
Caliente123
Both Active & Passive are good. I preffer using passive speakers. My speakers are not heavy and my amps are light. With powered speakers, you need buy 2 extra power cord cables and 2 XLR to XLR or XLR to Phono cables. The weight will most likely be around 55 to 60 lbs.
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 5:04 pm
Tear Em 'Up
I'm sorry Caliente, your logic is flawed. Most venues built after the early 70s have plenty of outlets available. So, getting power to the speaker is a moot point in most indoor applications.
According to Mackie's web site the non-powered version of their SRM 450 is 43 U.S. Standard pounds. Their powered SRM 450v2 weighs in at 43 U.S. Standard pounds. Now the SRM 450v2 weight is equal to the un-powered version of the same speaker.
Traditionalists, which you appear to be with your stance on turn tables (and now speakers), often hang their hat on the weight arguments, or power arguments, when talking to the un-educated about speakers. However, as learned from Mackie's own web site (there are more but I will not bore you with them all) their passive speaker actually weighs the same as the powered one. Their is nothing wrong with tradition. I used to carry 15 orange crates full of vinyl to every show. I've carried more speakers and turn table coffins then I care to remember. That being said, embrace the technology given to us. In the old west it was most often the gun fighter using the latest technology who won the gun fight at high noon. Not the traditionalists who still used the Colt Army .45. It helps quite a bit though if you can keep your cool under fire. ;-)
According to Mackie's web site the non-powered version of their SRM 450 is 43 U.S. Standard pounds. Their powered SRM 450v2 weighs in at 43 U.S. Standard pounds. Now the SRM 450v2 weight is equal to the un-powered version of the same speaker.
Traditionalists, which you appear to be with your stance on turn tables (and now speakers), often hang their hat on the weight arguments, or power arguments, when talking to the un-educated about speakers. However, as learned from Mackie's own web site (there are more but I will not bore you with them all) their passive speaker actually weighs the same as the powered one. Their is nothing wrong with tradition. I used to carry 15 orange crates full of vinyl to every show. I've carried more speakers and turn table coffins then I care to remember. That being said, embrace the technology given to us. In the old west it was most often the gun fighter using the latest technology who won the gun fight at high noon. Not the traditionalists who still used the Colt Army .45. It helps quite a bit though if you can keep your cool under fire. ;-)
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 6:19 pm
DJ azen
I use passive speaker and I'M happy with those. also , a fact is that with the power speakers you have to be very carefully because anything happen to those (fall down ,blow out....etc) ..you have to get a new one....while the passive you just have to replace the speaker in case anything goes wrong...................like everything, pasive or active,there are pros and cons.................if you ask me.....go passive.......
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 7:20 pm
Tear Em 'Up
Most active speakers also come with a nice long warranty. One of the amps blew out on a speaker of mine I was still able to get through the night with one cabinet, and my sub. I sent i back and the entire speaker was replaced at no cost to me. The "something might blow" argument can be made for amps, and passive speakers as well....
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 9:02 pm
Caliente123
So if you are in a hall and the speakers are 25 to 50 feet apart from each other, dont you need to 2 power cords.. ? Not every hall is designed perfect where the outlets are placed where you need them. There are many powered speakers that weigh alittle more than non powered.. Technology is getting lighter, i know. But i preffer to use passive.. (Im not telling anyone to use passive) Like i said.. Both are good. I never said anything bad about the powered. Besides turntables, i have used all types of equipment (Midi Controllers, CD players ) from the best to the worst. I embrasse technology all the time. I know Ohms, what power amp is good for a speaker and how much to push it.
I have Dj yed hundreds of parties events and always bring more than what i need because theres always small obstickles with outlets.
Let me talk facts about powered speakers but i still preffer passive.. My choice..
Powered speakers ( If one stops working, you can still play music from the other speaker. They have individual amps)
Powered speakers..( dont need to bring a rack mount amp, Amp is built into the speaker)
Powered speakers ( 2 wires.. 1 for the power and the other for the connection of the speaker to the Mixer)
Powered speakers ( Weight may be more than a passive) The new speakers are getting in lighter
I have Dj yed hundreds of parties events and always bring more than what i need because theres always small obstickles with outlets.
Let me talk facts about powered speakers but i still preffer passive.. My choice..
Powered speakers ( If one stops working, you can still play music from the other speaker. They have individual amps)
Powered speakers..( dont need to bring a rack mount amp, Amp is built into the speaker)
Powered speakers ( 2 wires.. 1 for the power and the other for the connection of the speaker to the Mixer)
Powered speakers ( Weight may be more than a passive) The new speakers are getting in lighter
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 9:08 pm
DJRudeDoGG
I'm getting a new set of QSC HPR series powered speakers. Quantity of two HPR 181i & two HPR 153i. Man I'm super-jazzed about these new babies!!
DJ RuDe
DJ RuDe
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 9:24 pm
kamakuakane
I prefer passive speakers and separate amps. As previously stated, if the amp blows, you might be down to one speaker. I run with two amps and currently use the lightweight QSC amps. The two amps weigh less than 35 lbs. If I lose one amp the other one can still be used to power the speakers. However, in my experience I have yet to lose an amp. I have had crossovers fail, connector panels and the drivers themselves fail over the 30 years, Tweeters more than the woofers. I keep a set of spare crossovers, connector panels, diaphrams for the tweeters and a spare woofer. I cannot afford to be without a speaker for weeks for a warranty repair and this method is cheaper than a second set of speakers that I do not have room to store.
Posted Tue 27 Oct 09 @ 11:10 pm
isrort
I've been saving for a while and I just bought and will arrive in a few days 2 Mackies HD1531 15IN 3-Way 1800W Powered Loudspeaker, 2 Cerwin-Vega CVA-121 21" Active Subwoofer, and a Vestax vci-100, and just rest me to define the Audio Interface (the master piece) for my active set up. I'm considering the NI Audio DJ 8 or the echo audiofire pre 8. i don't see another component necessary, since all my music and video collection is in my Lap.
Seems to me with your comments that the passive "era" is beginning to finish, and the active is the new one and is gaining ground with the new generations. (Everything is becoming simple and lighter)
Im relative new with this hobby, and i watched my friends years ago mixing with turn tables and cd players, etc. lifting a lot of racks, making a lot connections and those components are just being replaced by MIDI controllers, just like the passive set ups for the actives, so... this business is becoming lighter like any other (cars, TVs, Computers, etc), so i think i will follow increasing my landscape in the future with actives...
Seems to me with your comments that the passive "era" is beginning to finish, and the active is the new one and is gaining ground with the new generations. (Everything is becoming simple and lighter)
Im relative new with this hobby, and i watched my friends years ago mixing with turn tables and cd players, etc. lifting a lot of racks, making a lot connections and those components are just being replaced by MIDI controllers, just like the passive set ups for the actives, so... this business is becoming lighter like any other (cars, TVs, Computers, etc), so i think i will follow increasing my landscape in the future with actives...
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 1:45 am
taipanic
There are a few more advantages to each as well:
Unpowered - Many speakers do not really come "alive" unless they have an excessive amount of power driving them. Go to some of the high end audio forums and you will see that driving a good dual 18" cabinet with a quality 8000 watt amp like the Crown I-T8000 really brings out the bottom end. Powered cabinets will not have amplifiers with those power levels. When pushed to the limit, powered cabinets will distort out before a properly powered cabinet/amp setup.
Unpowered - In the event of an amplifier failure, you can use a second amplifier to still power all of your cabinets or bridge a single amplifier. You will also not have to go without a cabinet while the amp is being repaired. I think it is easier to aquire an amp if needed than to find a matching cabinet.
Powered - Easier load in/load out, quicker setup/breakdown. Also more convienent to set up a second, remote system if required (for a wedding ceremony, for example).
Personally, I use both for the reasons listed above.
Unpowered - Many speakers do not really come "alive" unless they have an excessive amount of power driving them. Go to some of the high end audio forums and you will see that driving a good dual 18" cabinet with a quality 8000 watt amp like the Crown I-T8000 really brings out the bottom end. Powered cabinets will not have amplifiers with those power levels. When pushed to the limit, powered cabinets will distort out before a properly powered cabinet/amp setup.
Unpowered - In the event of an amplifier failure, you can use a second amplifier to still power all of your cabinets or bridge a single amplifier. You will also not have to go without a cabinet while the amp is being repaired. I think it is easier to aquire an amp if needed than to find a matching cabinet.
Powered - Easier load in/load out, quicker setup/breakdown. Also more convienent to set up a second, remote system if required (for a wedding ceremony, for example).
Personally, I use both for the reasons listed above.
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 4:21 am
Dazmax
Hi all.
Taipanic, I find youre power argument somewhat confusing. Perhaps its the choice of words but powering any loudspeaker with "excessive amounts of power" will blow them up. I am hopeing that your thoughts are running allong the lines of using an over powered amplifier to drive a loudspeaker within it limits cleanly in order to avoid distortion, provide better transient response and greater headroom.
I agree that this cannot be done with active systems. But most good active systems have all kinds of built in protection and processing to avoid distortion and over driving.
I use large passive systems and small active ones. They each have advantages/disadvantages and have areas where it makes sense to use whatever fits best.
Active = convenient, compact and usualy for the size surprising quality (for the reasons already stated)
Passive= Power, flexibility and More Power.
There are few relyability issues on eather side (providing of course that they are not operated outside there limits). Modern amplification (ie class D with switching power supplies) has transrormed the portability and relyability of systems to a point which is miles ahead of what was available even 10 years ago. Gone are the days of 35/40Kg 4U amps with massive transformers and huge heat sinks. Thank goodness "all hail QSC and Crown".
Daz
Taipanic, I find youre power argument somewhat confusing. Perhaps its the choice of words but powering any loudspeaker with "excessive amounts of power" will blow them up. I am hopeing that your thoughts are running allong the lines of using an over powered amplifier to drive a loudspeaker within it limits cleanly in order to avoid distortion, provide better transient response and greater headroom.
I agree that this cannot be done with active systems. But most good active systems have all kinds of built in protection and processing to avoid distortion and over driving.
I use large passive systems and small active ones. They each have advantages/disadvantages and have areas where it makes sense to use whatever fits best.
Active = convenient, compact and usualy for the size surprising quality (for the reasons already stated)
Passive= Power, flexibility and More Power.
There are few relyability issues on eather side (providing of course that they are not operated outside there limits). Modern amplification (ie class D with switching power supplies) has transrormed the portability and relyability of systems to a point which is miles ahead of what was available even 10 years ago. Gone are the days of 35/40Kg 4U amps with massive transformers and huge heat sinks. Thank goodness "all hail QSC and Crown".
Daz
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 6:09 am
Charlie Wilson
Knowledge from trial and error is required, those that are unsure will only really know then. If you a mobile entertainer then I would suggest active speakers "a lot less rack gear"
2 X 2u Amps = 4u plus a 1u Crossover and 1u Compression limiter, 6u in total but then I would have a 1u PDU to tidy up the connectivity
so 7u in total which is just ridicules when you can just buy active now that takes care of all.
If anyone is using passive stuff and is mobile then it might be a good idea to do what I did and buy a pair of modern light weight amps.
You do get more headroom from passive speakers due to the fact that you can choose how much power to put into them making them better for larger audiences. You wouldn't see active speakers at a concert, there more tailored toward the mobile entertainer. Buying passive speakers and amps (good quality) compared to active speakers is a lot higher, I have both active and passive and use accordingly depending on what type of job I'm doing.
2 X 2u Amps = 4u plus a 1u Crossover and 1u Compression limiter, 6u in total but then I would have a 1u PDU to tidy up the connectivity
so 7u in total which is just ridicules when you can just buy active now that takes care of all.
If anyone is using passive stuff and is mobile then it might be a good idea to do what I did and buy a pair of modern light weight amps.
You do get more headroom from passive speakers due to the fact that you can choose how much power to put into them making them better for larger audiences. You wouldn't see active speakers at a concert, there more tailored toward the mobile entertainer. Buying passive speakers and amps (good quality) compared to active speakers is a lot higher, I have both active and passive and use accordingly depending on what type of job I'm doing.
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 6:11 am
Tear Em 'Up
Another huge issue if you do decide to go passive. Most speaker baskets blow from being under powered, not over powered. If passive is your choice make sure you don't "cheat" and get a less powerful amp.
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 8:01 am
Charlie Wilson
Yes Terry I've done it loads of times both ways, over powering and under powering. It was a very expensive learning curve.
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 8:57 am
Dazmax
Sorry to pick up on the wording again but with your kind permission may I substitute " most speaker baskets are blown from being under powered" with
Most speaker baskets are blown from being driven by under powered amplifiers which are being over driven.
When a power amp is driven into clipping its output changes from being a constantly varying signal to a direct current. This causes the speakers voce coil to overheat and burn out at what would seem to be a lower power than the speaker should handle.
This problem is even worse for high frequency drivers as not only can their voice coils not cope with the heating but they can also get damaged by the sudden stopping and starting of their diaphrams that clipping causes. This mechanicaly tears them appart.
You can drive a 500W speaker from a 250W amp as long as the amp is not over driven or clipped. The advice to not scrimp on the amp is sound. And I am not critisizing just clarifying the reasons.
Daz
Most speaker baskets are blown from being driven by under powered amplifiers which are being over driven.
When a power amp is driven into clipping its output changes from being a constantly varying signal to a direct current. This causes the speakers voce coil to overheat and burn out at what would seem to be a lower power than the speaker should handle.
This problem is even worse for high frequency drivers as not only can their voice coils not cope with the heating but they can also get damaged by the sudden stopping and starting of their diaphrams that clipping causes. This mechanicaly tears them appart.
You can drive a 500W speaker from a 250W amp as long as the amp is not over driven or clipped. The advice to not scrimp on the amp is sound. And I am not critisizing just clarifying the reasons.
Daz
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 11:36 am
Tear Em 'Up
You are correct, sir. Thanks for the clarification.... ;-)
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 12:16 pm
isrort
thanks to all... very interesting... so... of course i don't want to blow up my new PA Speakers and the Subs, so... how to know if im sending the proper power signal to my speakers? of course i want to get all the "juice" from them when i could need... how to manage that?...or since this an active set up, can i just up the volume level to the maximum? i don't want to damage my new bbs
again i will use a couple of Cerwin-Vega CVA-121 21" Active Subwoofer and a couple of Mackie HD1531 15IN 3-Way 1800W Powered Loudspeaker, an Audio interface Echo AudioFire 4 (charlie no one in mexico manage the studiomaster you recommend me, and the only authorized supplier in the states is not longer available) and the vestax vci-100.
thanks again for your advises...
again i will use a couple of Cerwin-Vega CVA-121 21" Active Subwoofer and a couple of Mackie HD1531 15IN 3-Way 1800W Powered Loudspeaker, an Audio interface Echo AudioFire 4 (charlie no one in mexico manage the studiomaster you recommend me, and the only authorized supplier in the states is not longer available) and the vestax vci-100.
thanks again for your advises...
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 12:31 pm
Tear Em 'Up
And that is the point of my first post in this thread. Doing the math, or knowing someone you trust to do it for you. Most store (::cough:: Guitar Center) sales clerks are not very good at doing that math. They are only interested in pushing gear out the door. That is another good reason to give active speakers a long look. The manufacturer has done that math for you.
Posted Wed 28 Oct 09 @ 1:36 pm
